Travelling the Powwow Highway with Wes Studi
SEASON 2 | EPISODE 2
Wes Studi | Photo provided by Wes Studi
Released on September 30th, National Truth and Reconciliation Day (and International Podcast Day)
The legendary Wes Studi joins Joel for an exchange about his sweeping career from "The Last of the Mohicans" to "Reservation Dogs" and everything in between. Wes is a Tsalagi (Cherokee) screen veteran and the first Indigenous actor to receive an Academy Award for his lifetime achievements.
Wes tells Joel about a chance error that led to choosing his showbiz name, wearing tights for the first time, his time as a young soldier in Viet Nam before he got involved in the American Indian Movement (AIM), and his recollection of a mountaintop fight scene with his late friend and fellow trailblazing Indigenous actor, Russell Means.
Wes lets you in on his thoughts about acting as a business as well as an art and shares his advice for aspiring actors: looks will only get you so far – acting is hard work and you still have to deliver! Wes and Joel discuss National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, the meaning of apologies, and what has happened with the phrase "telling our own stories" over the last 15 years.
The man. The legend. Wes Studi!
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JD: Hello and Tansi, all my relations, even the rocks, uh, welcome to Actors and Ancestors, a show about lives and experiences of Indigenous actors, uh, folks like you, um, or maybe not, I'm not the ear police, you don't have to be Native to, uh, sit in, but good on you because allies are, are always welcome. I'm your host, J.D. Montgrand. I'm a Rocky Cree actor from Treaty 6 and 10, and you might recognize me from a few TV shows and movies, and I'm just letting you know this again because I'm sure that there's more than a few people tuning into the show for the first time because of my guest today, who I am truly humbled and honored that we have, uh here sitting across from me through the magic of the internet, uh, because when I started this podcast, were thinking who would be the biggest guest that I could possibly dream of.
And that was this man. And, uh, it's a wonderful moment. I didn't dream it would happen, but it's a testament to our community as indigenous artists and just how much we want to uplift each other and support each other. Cause that's the aim of this podcast is to be, uh, a small part. In a larger vehicle to drive our people forward.
And so I'm appreciative to you, sir. And I will lay some tobacco down. Uh, let me introduce him. He's arguably the most famous native actor to have been in this industry. The first of us to win an Oscar, but I think it's, uh, more important to say he's a part of our history as artists breaking down doors, showing us as humans rather than stereotypes, taking part in cinematic history, like, uh, being in the first all indigenous cast film Powwow Highway and of course on roles with huge blockbusters like Dances with Wolves, Last of the Mohicans, Avatar, Uh, that's the one with the big blue natives instead of the, uh, TV show that I'm in, but, uh, all these accolades, incredible roles, which, I mean, we could spend the entire time chatting about, but I want to focus on more of life and ideas, which is, uh, where I want to show start.
So welcome to the show. My guest today, known only to his friends by his full name, Westinghouse Studebaker. Studebaker. Yeah. Can you, uh, introduce yourself, please? Tell us, uh, where you are, your land, who claims you?
WES STUDI: My name is Westinghouse Studebaker, and I was manufactured in Detroit in 1946. Uh, I am claimed by, uh, General Motors at times, and sometimes by Ford Distributing Company. And, uh, I'm happy to be here with you to speak about ancestors and actors. They're, um two portions of the population that we cannot live without.
JD: Hey,
WES STUDI: Right?
Uh,
JD: I've, I've heard how, uh, notoriously serious you take yourself from a few of your friends already. So it's good to see that, that, uh, the rumors are living up to it. oh gosh, there's so much to actually talk about with you. Um, but you've had a So many challenges, uh, on and off screen that you overcome.
You've broken down barriers, you've set records, uh, you know, won the biggest of big awards. Um, and before I get into all of this stuff, this journey, I found out in my research that it wasn't until your 70s that you had your very first on screen kiss. Why are you so shy, Wes, mleh?
WES STUDI: Well, actually, I did say that. I did say that, and that was actually a mistake. It was, that was my second Uh, Screen Kiss. I had the opportunity back in the, I think it was the late 90s, wherein we, uh, we shot some films, uh, taken from books, uh, for, um, A series that used to run on PBS a few years ago. I had the honor to have been cast as the husband of, uh, Sheila Towsey. , she was actually my first little screen kiss. It was just a little peck, you know. Mwah. uh, so,
JD: And you decided it wasn’t for you, so you waited for a couple decades before you Did it again?
WES STUDI: No, I enjoyed it. I thought, oh man, I don't know if I can continue to enjoy this and keep my head on my shoulders, you know, kind of like, uh, perhaps my, might be kind of like taking something addictive, you know.
JD: No. Yeah,
WES STUDI: but in any case, let me back up a little bit. My, my name is actually Wesley Studi, and I go by the name Wes Studi, without the E on the end, because I have a legal name, and I have a showbiz name, which I came by, by mistake.
You know, back in the days when you had to have, uh, a headshot?
JD: Yup.
WES STUDI: Well Back in those days, you had to go and have your head shots printed, and, uh, the fashion at the time was to put your name down at the bottom, I inadvertently Or, the printer made a mistake and left off, uh, the last E on my name.
So it became, I started the the name Wes rather than Wesley. And, uh, and Studi without the E at that point because I looked at, uh, the pictures when I picked them up. And I thought, hey, That's kind of suggestive as well as kind of looks good, you know, so, so I kept that, uh, that spelling of the name.
And, uh, who claims me are the Jalagi of northeastern Oklahoma. which is actually the Cherokee reservation, that's who claims me and I claim them right back.
JD: , I'm calling you, of course, from Canada, uh, up here. Um, I'm filming a movie with one of your friends, Michelle Thrush. I just want to give her a, give her a shout out. She speaks very highly of you.
WES STUDI: Shout out to Michelle, Yes.
JD: That's right. Yeah. It's, it's funny because. , I've had this discussion with a few people about how we do know each other. Um, and do you know that game, Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon?
WES STUDI: I've heard of it. Yeah.
JD: yeah, yeah, where you reach out and you say, Oh, this person was in this movie and this movie, and they know this, and then you can find, uh, a link to Kevin Bacon through six different, uh, exchanges.
And then for us, it's funny because it's literally, I think anyone that's done, done something in indigenous film, it's the one degree, you know,
WES STUDI: one degree.
JD: one degree of separation. We only get the one because there's not, there's not that many of us.
WES STUDI: Yes, but we're building. We're building. There's going to be more and more of us soon.
JD: Yes, exactly exactly, which is why your guidance is very much appreciated here.
Um, you know, and it's funny too, because there's a lot of people, uh, that are not indigenous, you know, um, they're these pretendions as, as we call them, uh, people that always find that they have a mystery grandparent who is Cherokee or something. Does that, why do you think it's always the Cherokee?
WES STUDI: It's so tiresome. I tell you, it's so tiresome. It's been going on all my life. You know, everybody that wants to claim to have some sort of, uh, Connection or Indian blood, if you will. Always picked Cherokee from the time immemorial. Well, not immemorial, but in my lifetime. Uh, yeah. But I've noticed lately they're starting to reach out and claim being Apache and, or Comanche, or, you know. So, uh,
JD: Which, which might be the fact that we're actually becoming more and more known, all the different tribes. So it's not just, not just the one. I don't know.
WES STUDI: Right, right. Well, Cherokee was the only one that would come up to people's minds at some point in time. So, I think that was probably the impetus for that, you know. But, yeah, I'm glad we're sharing now.
JD: Yeah. Previously, it was, uh, if you were to name an indigenous actor, you might be one of the only ones that people could have come up with off of the top of their head. And now, I mean, it is a beautiful thing. Now we're starting to get a lot of other people showing up, you know, we have our Lily Gladstones and D’Pharoh’s and all these, all these folks that are inspiring, uh, in no small part thanks to you. I mean, when you started, it was. It was a very different environment for, for Indigenous actors. Um, you know, there was, you probably could name more than a few productions where you were the only person on set, uh, back in the day, and now you're working, or you worked on a show like Reservation Dogs, uh, literally where you, where you grew up, right, in Oklahoma. Uh, where the writers, directors, crew, um, so many people were all indigenous. Uh, what, what's, what's that been like for you personally to, to see this incredible transition,
WES STUDI: I enjoy it because, uh, I can empathize, sympathize, and, or, I can feel it, the, feel the, the, uh, excitement of young people who are doing maybe their first series, or maybe got their first part in a film, and I know what the feeling was like when I, uh, started as well.
And it's, uh, it's, it's an exciting time. It's a time of beginning to learn. about what the business is all about. Um, and, uh, what brings, what, what, comes to my mind at that point is, uh, uh, for the longest time, at that point in time, when I got started, I thought it was the work of acting, the actual act of acting that was What was, uh, asked of us.
But, as time goes on, I begin to learn that, no, you, it's not just what you do in front of the camera or on stage. It's also how you go about promoting yourself. And, uh, Continuing to find more work, that is the work, actual work of the actor, and that involves so much more than just, just the time when you hear action or when your play starts.
The fact that you have to become somewhat of a personality is something that I did not, I did not count on when I got started, you know, because it's a matter of, You do a show that's successful, and if you're a part of a successful show, you're going to have to begin to talk about it, speak about it, promote it, be a part of the whole machinery of selling the work, you know?
And that's something that came sort of late to me in my career, is that I, I've I finally realized that, yes, I'm going to have to do these interviews and talk about things over and over and over and over again to the point of exhaustion. You know what I mean? It's uh, uh, I, I really felt for, uh, Lily whenever she became, uh, Uh, you know, the big hit, the big new thing, you know, something that she's been working at for years.
But once, uh, you know, she became the big new thing and wham, she's on every cover. She's on every show, you know, doing this. And I thought, oh my god, I bet this woman is exhausted after a couple of weeks, you know. And she had to keep on and on with the shows
JD: because it was, it was like a supernova for her, right? It all came seemingly at once rather than this gradual build.
WES STUDI: And the same thing with the Reservation Dogs cast. The young, the young kid. Wow, you know, there they are on every freaking show you can imagine. They're, uh,
JD: Yeah, I did a movie with D’Pharoh and, uh, uh, uh, Paulina, um, before just a few years before they got cast in that, and it was incredible to see these, these, these. Kids, because there were children at the time, suddenly just go into the absolute mainstream superstardom. Um, and they've done so I think with a lot of, uh, grace and they've, they've carried themselves really, really exceedingly well. And that's, it is wonderful to see, but you're, you're right. There is a, um, a certain bit of, I guess, uh, performance that you have to bring to that as well. Because you, you know, You know, you can't really switch off. Do You do you find that exhausting?
WES STUDI: Oh yeah, absolutely exhausting. I mean, how many, how, how long can you be excited about your latest project? you finished a year ago, you know, it's something and it finally hits the screen. And then all of a sudden you had to jump up and be so excited about, wow. You know, and, uh, and hopefully you're entertaining to whoever's in or interviewing you or whatever, you know, and, and their, uh, their followings. Uh, but, Uh, yeah.
JD: But what was it? What was it like though on, on that, on that show? Um, being on a show that's much like you, I think it was a very powerful show, but also one that wasn't serious. It brought a lot of powerful issues, but it was also good at bringing that humor, which I I've seen you reflect so well. Uh, do you, do you think that you, you just, it's a good extension of us as a people?
WES STUDI: I think so, and I think it's, uh, it has helped with the understanding of who we as Native Americans are here in the United States, and in the Americas, really, uh, that, uh, Up until a certain time in my career, I rarely, if ever, had any humor in my performances. You know, and that's, it's because of where I started, right?
I started with, uh, Well, actually I, When I think back on it, uh, Powwow Highway was kind of humorous in terms of my, my, part. But,
JD: I think it’s impossible to get that many Indians together and not have some fun, you know?
WES STUDI: but after that, all of my, every image of me in any film was serious. Right? I mean, it was, uh, we're, we're dragging the, the drama to the max, you know, it's, uh, but, uh, So, for a number of years, that's just about the only kind of parts I was offered and, and did.
Um, until something like, um, I think I finally found kind of a crossover in a film called Mystery Men.
JD: hmm. Oh my goodness. I was going to talk about this with you because that came out after heat, which I know was a role where you were, you know, not cast as, as an indigenous man. But I, I saw that before I saw heat. And I remember the confusion that I felt watching you on screen because at that time I was still waiting for, well, when's the, when's the indigenous twist gonna gonna kick in when's this guy gonna be a magical shaman or something, you know, but you were just this really funny character.
WES STUDI: Uh, right. And I didn't put any feathers in my hat
JD: Yeah.
WES STUDI: Right. Yeah. I didn't drag out the leathers and didn't get out the feathers. Uh, yeah, that was, uh, first
JD: You had the pleathers, I think. It looked,
WES STUDI: pleathers, Well, well, actually it was, uh, my first time wearing tights.
Uh, Yeah.
JD: I think you were the Sphinx, as I recall. And you would always have these great, uh, words of wisdom and like, you can't let your doubts own you, or you will own your, or something like that.
WES STUDI: Yeah.
JD: And it was such a funny guy.
WES STUDI: You must fight. You must fight like the wolf pack. Not like the six pack.
JD: was such a, such a silly movie. It was ahead of its time. I really think cause you were, that was way ahead of the superhero angles.
WES STUDI: Way ahead of Deadpool, I tell ya that.
JD: way ahead, way ahead and yeah, and it was, it was a, a turning point. I remember in, in my younger, uh, cinema days, just because I was like, Oh, look at that. We could, we could just be characters, you know, that's, that's different.
That's something really cool. What was one of the first things that you remember? Um, of an indigenous person seeing on TV. Who was, who was that? If you can go back to when you first
WES STUDI: Oh, that would be J. Silverheels. I used to watch Saturday Morning Lone Ranger.
JD: Yes. Lone ranger.
WES STUDI: yeah, and he was the only, Jay was the only identifiable native you could see on television.
JD: Yeah.
WES STUDI: You know, I mean, you look at somebody like Will Rogers. Yeah, I mean, he's part, but he, he could pass as white, you know, it's no problem.
JD: I got that curse too
Um, yeah, well. You got two places to work there, you know,
JD: there, we go. That's true.
WES STUDI: Well, that's the way it was at the beginning of my career, was that that was essentially, uh, about the only kind of parts that we could be considered for, given, given our look, essentially. And, uh, uh, and especially if we identified, uh, on our resumes what we were, you know.
And so, uh, That, uh, that was pretty much a standard at that point in time. That was in the late 80s, uh, when I started. There were just a, there were just a few, , in LA when I went out there. I could count the actors that were available, maybe A dozen males , my age, who were working, my age and around my age, who were actually working from time to time, you know?
JD: Some of those, some of those guys. And of course, much respect to the late great, uh, Russell means Gordon Tootoosis. I imagine a lot of those folks, you were. around, uh, when they were working, you're working. And so you do, you would see a lot of the same people in those audition rooms.
WES STUDI: Essentially, yeah. Essentially, uh, the same people. Russell, , I got to know during the actual AIM days. , before that, you know, before, getting into, show business,
JD: That's, which is, which is great. Uh, because you, uh, you led this entire life.
WES STUDI: I had a life
JD: you had a life!
WES STUDI: yes. I had
JD: like a legit life. You didn't, you didn't get into acting until you're in your forties. I think it was, you, you were in the Vietnam war, um, Your experience with the Vietnamese people, uh, was one of the reasons why you mentioned that you joined AIM, um, because you said you found more kinship with the Vietnamese than the United States.
I was hoping that you could kind of reflect on that and your other reasons for joining AIM.
WES STUDI: Yeah, um, I, I've, uh, I've told the story before, 68 to 69 is when I was there. We, as an army unit, had, uh, Vietnamese who had been VC, Viet Cong and or RVN, um, and some of them had surrendered. Chú Hi is what they were called.
And, uh, some of them became our scouts. Ring a bell? Uh, anyway, uh, but, uh, Some of these guys that I would talk with, uh, we had two guys that actually I became pretty good friends with given the language barrier and everything else, but, uh, kind of created a bond. There were times when I, like, we, we go from like a fire base to a village or something like that.
If we were Walking around, not really doing anything official, army wise or anything, you know. Some of the kids and some of the adults would, uh, come up and talk with , our, uh, scouts. And then look over at me and they'd say, Hey, you same, same Vietnamese, eh?
You same, same Vietnamese. And they'd be smiling and laughing, carrying on. I'd say, Oh, heck yeah, same, same Vietnamese. Me! Yeah, so we got, uh, kind of, they would offer us up nice food and things like that, you know, it kind of, it paid off, but, uh, in a way, on another level, that's what got me to thinking at that point, what the hell am I doing here, you know,
JD: Yeah.
WES STUDI: fighting these people who have actually done nothing to me in the present and, you know, share, uh, a, uh, share a, uh, an experience with a colonial power that's doing the same thing to them as was done to my people, you know.
So, yeah, I began thinking about that way before I came home. I probably, my last six months over there was, uh, I wasn't that enthusiastic a soldier at that point in time.
JD: Yeah, that would be very disillusioning for what was, what was happening at the time.
WES STUDI: And the one other thing, too, that happened was that we actually relocated villages of Viet Cong.
JD: I was going to ask about this. I heard a story that they told the indigenous people, you, you guys not to go to work that day. Basically, they were going to relocate a village. What was the reasoning? Do you think?
WES STUDI: I don't know. I don't know. And it's only my guess and my, uh, mind that came up with the idea that, well, , do they, , I don't know. I don't know. Do they remember that? Do they, is that a part of their psyche? Is that part of their reasoning why, uh, they're not, uh, taking this out there? Because what they would do is just take a huge net and spread it out on the ground and have all the villagers Put, put their belongings in that net and then hook it up to one of those, uh, big, uh, Jolly Green Giant Helicopters and take them and their belongings to someplace else and dump them.
You know, that was, uh, Yeah, and so that kind of reminded me of our own removal.
JD: Which is, yeah, it's, it's universal across. I was, I was literally just talking to someone the other day about, um, the Inuk and how they would move them to uninhabitable areas of the tundra and that, you know, they've not allowed them to go. It doesn't matter where it is on Turtle Island, but the same thing, just, you guys are there, go where we want you to stay and we're going to keep an eye on you.
WES STUDI: Yeah, but any case Yeah, that's that part of my story in terms of, uh, yeah.
JD: Absolutely. What were, what were some of the, um. Other reasons at the time that guys like you and Russell were joining AIM together, what kind of common kinship did you find?
WES STUDI: Well, actually, I think Russell was maybe not the initial founding of the American Indian Movement, but he soon became one of the voices, you know, he became one of the big voices of the movement and, uh. Uh, you know, he, he served time over it and, he and several others became the figureheads that were, uh, from the movement. Uh, and they suffered for it as well as, uh, you know, they They became personalities, uh, and I think that's how Russell, uh, eventually became a part of the acting community. I think the first, uh, first thing that I, I ever worked with him on was Last of the Mohicans.
Uh,
JD: Yeah , I can't imagine anyone in the indigenous community that hasn't seen that. But, uh, yeah, what a, what a performance you guys gave. Uh, I still, I still get goosebumps when I, when I, when I watch you guys going at it on the clifftop, you know,
WES STUDI: Yeah, yeah, we had a good time with that.
JD: I imagine like, I mean, you, cause , we're just watching it through the lens of the movie and the masterwork that it was, but , taking off my eyes for a second and thinking of just how much fun that would have been at the time rolling around.
WES STUDI: to, I had, I had to remind him, Stay serious, man, stay serious. You're killing me here. Come on, really killing me. You
JD: And he's just laughing. Yeah, I know. Oh man, that is so good.
Um, so I, I guess, because, I remember you, you had, uh, uh, talked about, um, how you got involved in, in acting. And initially it was because you thought that there would be a lot of, uh, you know, a lot of women in the classes
WES STUDI: you got a problem with that?
JD: no, no, no. You, you said you, you know, you, you got that very first kiss taste and you went, Ooh, this is a bit too, too intoxicating.
WES STUDI: Hey, um, Yeah,
AD: Hey Actors & Ancestors listeners, I want to let you know about another film & TV podcast you might enjoy by another Indigenous group! It’s called Reel Indigenous (that’s R-e-e-l Indigenous, like a film reel, get it? That’s funny).
Their podcast takes a critical look at what’s on your screen and everything in between - a mix of reviews and interviews with producers, directors, writers of your favourite shows… on this show we only talk to Actors, so if you’re looking for some of the other people who make things happen and want more Indigenous screen content make sure to check out Reel Indigenous.
They’re also really awesome and helped us get in touch with Wes to ask him to be on the show you’re listening to right now! Reel Indigenous drops an episode on Tuesdays on all podcast platforms. Give them a listen!JD: you've lived through so much history. Uh, even when history was still trying to write us off, you know, you're, you're quoted. Hold on. You're quoted as, as saying, where's this quote? I had it. Uh, we had a different way of living. We had a different way of life. We are older than America. We always have been. Uh, I, I love that quote because how important, , is it that our history, our lives, our future now are finally being told through our own artistic voices?
As opposed to the stereotype that we were thrown The scraps.
WES STUDI: Well, I think we're actually just, at this point, , introducing ourselves as real human beings to the rest of America, in a way. Because they, they have always seen us as a monolith of brown people who used to live here and we feel really bad about, uh, , having screwed them over, you know, or We did a, uh, a takeover of a continent here that was peopled by many, and many were wiped out.
Your Ordinary American citizen, if they have any idea of history whatsoever, feel a guilt or a, uh, or perhaps even, uh, a redistributed kind of, uh, an anger towards us because they don't want to feel the guilt of their country. Thank you. Happened to their ancestors just because they will immediately say well, I didn't know that I wasn't here then right?
So, okay All right. Well, we Ourselves as natives we cling to our ancestors I mean we hope to honor them by being as Hopefully as good as they were at it at a much more difficult time in history when they were actually being physically attacked by their armies and militias and everything. You know, we don't have it that we haven't have a lot easier these days than those guys did.
So, so we honor our ancestors. They, in a way the American citizens, while they may have their icons and their heroes and all, I still think that there is a fight. feeling of guilt within their, uh, persona, you know, and, it's something that we talk about in terms of healing. And I think that the average American citizen can also begin to think about it in terms of being healed and healing as well, because, you know, they essentially are the abuser.
In a, in a relationship that we, that we have had and continue to have. I don't know about what kind of treaties you guys have in Canada, but we, steadfastly cling to our treaties because that's what makes us, equivalent to states.
JD: Hmm.
WES STUDI: you know, on a political basis . And then we are also citizens, you know, I mean, that, that's a kind of a, uh, almost a
JD: Mm-Hmm.
WES STUDI: split personality in a way. Who do we owe our allegiance to? We owe our allegiance to our people, but we are allied. to the federal government of the United States.
And that's what our governments, our tribal governments uphold and continue to uphold. And, and hopefully the United States does the same thing.
JD: Yeah, you would hope, I mean, you're, you're right. You're quoted as saying, um, we bring our ancestors with us and, uh, yeah, this, it's absolutely true. Speaking of, um, American and Canadian people feeling bad about, you know, screwing us over and in Canada here we have, uh, National Truth and Reconciliation Day, or orange shirt day.
It's coming up on September 30th and it's, it is a day that's meant to commemorate the history, the legacy of our residential school system and educate, um, Canadians, non Indigenous people, the concept of every child matters. , coming after the uncovering of unmarked burial sites at all these schools across, Canada. A lot of people now,
WES STUDI: Almost 10,000
Yeah. Yeah. And more, I mean, we're still, still uncovering. And a lot of people, uh, They will just take this day off as a statutory holiday for federal workplaces. I mean, how, how do we make something like this meaningful? And honestly, are these days even meaningful for non Indigenous people when there are Indigenous people? We just, we, this is a day like any other, um, and what is the point of symbolic days like this? Um, do you have any thoughts about these type of, uh, commemorations?
WES STUDI: I think they’re good for people that feel good about them. If somebody gets a satisfaction of some kind, if it does something for them, that's fine. They mean very little to me.
JD: Yeah.
WES STUDI: It's very much like, uh, the state of Georgia at one point in time played a big role in our removal from the eastern part of the United States.
And, uh, they issued an apology.
JD: yeah okay,
WES STUDI: I just say, okay,
JD: exactly.
WES STUDI: you're sorry. What is, you know, what does that do for me? What does that do for my people?
JD: yeah, exactly. Canada has said their fair share of apologies
WES STUDI: Yeah. The reconciliation. Yeah.
JD: thanks. Like, I don't know what to say to a, Hey, we're sorry about that. But yeah, you're right. What you were saying earlier about, it wasn't me though. I wasn't there, you know, okay. Yeah, great. So we're not learning but part of what we do is we're also like to focus on, 'cause this is very, very heavy things that of course we can get into all the way.
But there's also some really real, beautiful things too. I know that you have a really personal connection with some beautiful parts of your own history. Uh, your own ancestor, uh, is and forgive me if I'm saying it wrong, um, Nanyehi, a beloved figure in Cherokee history, is that correct? Yeah. Can you tell, can you tell us about her?
WES STUDI: I just learned, in the past six months or thereabouts, or past year, that I am a descendant of Nanyehi or her English name was Nancy Ward.
JD: Ah,
WES STUDI: And, uh, To tell the truth, I'm leaving in about four days to go into rehearsals, uh, to do a play about her life.
JD: that's right. And it's a musical?
WES STUDI: And it's a musical, yes.
JD: Now, this, this is something I'm very excited to see you in because I don't think I've ever seen you do something like this.
WES STUDI: Uh, right. I, I, I haven't, I haven't done a musical before. Uh, but yeah, this is my bucket list thing, right? I mean, I got to do a musical before I die, you know.
JD: Yeah. What's, what's, what's, what's her, what's her story? Nancy Ward. Nanyehi.
WES STUDI: Oh, there's just so many stories. I, if I could learn to intertwine them well, uh, she is the, the ancestor of my father's line of people. Nancy was married to a Cherokee first and how she came to prominence was during a fight with, uh, I don't I don't know which battle it was, but, uh, I think they were allied with the Brits at the time, but, her husband was killed. And she, , took over his part of the fighting and continued to fight with the men throughout, , that battle. And, uh,
JD: She’s a real warrior. Awesome.
WES STUDI: she was a real warrior. woman that, uh, got involved to the max. And then, as time went on, she began to mellow out and became known as a peace woman, a peace chief, essentially, because she was known as the beloved woman, everybody loves this woman. You know, because of what she has done for the people.
But, uh, yeah, so, , I've had, , famous, people in my, what do you call it?
JD: That's the, um, the ancestors part. Of the actors of our, we got it. We know
WES STUDI: All right. We're going to make use of that title. Darn right. We're going to use it. Yes.
JD: That's it. That's what we do. Uh, you're also notoriously a really good hustler. If I were to say to you, Hey, Wes, I hear you're making a movie with Lily Gladstone and uh, Dallas Gold Tooth and me. Hey. What does that remind you of? Can you tell that story of you calling up somebody? Yeah,
WES STUDI: Oh god, yes, yeah. I love that guy. actually, I had worked on, uh, , Last of the Mohicans and, , gotten to know, , Michael Mann to a certain extent and, , had retained, uh his number. So, one day I saw that, , Hey, he's going to do a film, a contemporary film.
And, uh, I thought, Hmm. So I called him up and amazingly enough, He took my call. How are you doing, Wes? And I said, Hey, Hey Michael, I understand you're doing a film with Robert De Niro, Al Pacino and me. Is that right? He was quiet for a bit. Then he began to chuckle and then he got louder and louder. So I thought, aha, got it.
JD: Got ‘im! the steps you got to take in this business sometimes see that's that's that's another thing people don't realize you know Not just doing that work, but that's part of what you were saying earlier about Getting in
WES STUDI: Finding the next job.
JD: Yeah. Yeah. Putting it out there. And then you were this, like, for those of you that haven't seen heat, go see it.
I mean, it's an all star cast. Uh, absolutely incredible. I saw it again after I saw you in mystery men. So it was a second role that I saw you in where, where your character wasn't just tied to being indigenous. And I thought, wow, look at you. She just going toe to toe with all of these guys. And yeah,
WES STUDI: I call it my crossover.
JD: That was the moment when you switched, I, uh, I really, I really, , appreciate you being here. Uh, I always. this is a segment I call the red, red carpet just for us here. Um, what is out there right now that is inspiring you, uh, that, you know, makes your spirit feel full that you look, you see other indigenous people doing.
It could be a person could be a thing you're watching. Um, you'll be happy to know that we had to institute a rule that people couldn't just shout out reservation dogs all the time, because that's what everyone, that's what everyone was, was really happy about. What out there, uh, personally inspires you at the moment, Wes?
WES STUDI: I think it's the growth of, uh, natives in cinema. And it's something that, whether we meant it or not, we always said that we've got to tell our own stories. It was something like almost every meeting you would ever go to about show business and natives, that kind of thing, it always ended up with the same old phrase.
And some of us got kind of tired of it after a while. But on the other hand, it was was we got to tell our own stories, right? Well, as it turns out, that phrase is still with us. We are now telling our own stories, however, and with, with native talent. And that is what we as actors back then had always said to one another is that if, If we're going to tell our own stories, we got to have our own people get more involved in this business. And lo and behold, I would say 15 to 20 years ago, that process actually began to develop.
JD: It is huge how it's changed in the last decade and a half. You're right. I mean, I can't believe it. you're not just an inspiration for, for so many other indigenous people, but I mean, even your own family.
WES STUDI: yeah, I have two sons who were, have been involved and are still involved in the business. Koalan Studi is out in L.A. working. And my older son, Daniel, uh, is the voice of, Stallion of the Cimarron. Anyway, it's a horse story. And my son was the, uh, the Indian boy in it. Uh, years and years ago.
JD: you know what? I appreciate that because frankly, we're due for any type of, uh, and I make the joke, of course, but we don't, we don't have nepotism in, in there's, there's not enough of a Hollywood, Hollywood for indigeneity here for any type
WES STUDI: Hey, I'm trying!
JD: You're trying
WES STUDI: I’m trying to, a dynasty is what I'm after here.
JD: Get those kids right in there.
Do you,
WES STUDI: Get them working.
JD: Do you have any final words for any other young people that are thinking of jumping into this industry?
WES STUDI: Well, what I would say is that, remember, it is a business and it is something that you have to prepare for. There's no, There's no getting around that. You have to be able to hit your mark and say your line. You have to know how to park and bark, if you will. And that's, just
JD: I don’t know how I've never heard that phrase before. I love it.
Park and bark
WES STUDI: uh,
JD: I've never heard it
WES STUDI: it comes, it comes from opera people, I think. But, uh, no, I don't know where it comes from. But yeah, you got to be prepared. You gotta do lines. You gotta work. That's the, that's, that's the work of being in front of the camera or on stage. And I would recommend stage work before, film work.
Uh,
JD: I agree with you.
WES STUDI: at least, at least Yeah, getting to develop your chops on stage is not, uh, not a bad idea, I think.
And, uh, uh, sometimes looks will get you so far, but then after that you still have to deliver, you know. It's, so it's a matter of doing that as well as sacrificing time, effort, and sometimes meals and a good time, you know. gotta, there's some things you just simply have to sacrifice at times
JD: It is true.
WES STUDI: It's work.
JD: it's work. And
WES STUDI: it can be real work
JD: I think those are the, some of the truest words that you can ask for. Yeah, the man, the legend, it's, it's Wes Studi himself, without the E at the end of it, because, because of a printing error, which I think that's the, that's the biggest revelation I've heard in ages. Got my name from a printer.
WES STUDI: If It looks good. hey, go with it, you know.
JD: If it looks good, You go with it. uh, uh, Wes, I, I appreciate you being here. Everybody, , out there in Actors and Ancestors land. Uh, thank you for tuning in and, , maybe we'll see you on the next one.
WES STUDI: Well, who knows? Maybe I'll see you down the road on the set somewhere.
JD: Oh, hey, we're putting it out there and now it's got to happen. I appreciate that.
WES STUDI: It's out there. Okay.
JD: Tiniki! Ekosi.
WES STUDI: Hilarion.
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