Throwing Molotovs and Doing It Ourselves with D’Pharaoh Woon-A-Tai
D’Pharaoh Woon-A-Tai | Photo by Kjohn photos, provided by D’Pharaoh Woon-A-Tai
“This is an industry of making friends, this is not an industry of having enemies”
Transcript below
D’Pharaoh Woon-A-Tai (D'Pharaoh Miskwaatez McKay Woon-A-Tai) is an Oji-Cree -Anishinaabe actor born in Toronto, whose people are from Big Trout Lake First Nation. In this episode D’Pharaoh tells us how hard it is to accurately throw a Molotov, how taking a chance and standing out in his audition scored him a lead role in Reservation Dogs, and how casting directors can do a better job casting Native roles across the industry.
Episode takeaways:
How proud he was to work his first movie at 17 years old, Beans by Tracey Deer, (where he and Joel first met). It was where D’Pharaoh learned about dedication as an actor, how to throw a molotov, and also where he first met his Reservation Dogs co-star and now close friend, Paulina Alexis!
He grew up watching the film 270 years of Resistance, and recommends it to anyone interested in the Oka Crisis and the Kanehsatà:ke and Kahnawá:ke resistance to settler colonialism.
Joel plays the father, Kania’tariio, in Beans. He shares with D’Pharaoh how and why they actually got to use the real Mercier Bridge in production and how the racism they experienced affected the shoot.
How he stays grounded and humble: being in nature, going back to his traditional territories and spending time with his family and friends. On every set he reflects on an all the other Indigenous actors who came before him who didn’t always get to be so proud of the roles they had to play in the industry.
What he’s proud to say about Reservation Dogs is that half the crew was Indigenous and for half of them it was their first time. In D’Pharaoh’s experience, there’s a lot of nepotism on set, especially when it comes to the crew. He says, for Indigenous people, “we need to uplift each other — every arts industry… if we’re not going to do it nobody is going to do it for us. We have to do it for ourselves.”
Joel and D’Pharaoh at the HBO “True Detective: Night Country” premiere in LA
(January 2024)
“We need to uplift each other — every arts industry… if we’re not going to do it nobody is going to do it for us. We have to do it for ourselves.”
ACTORS AND ANCESTORS’ RED RED CARPET SHOUT OUT FROM D’PHARAOH:
Angelique Midthunder, a casting director for Reservation Dogs. He says she is “non-Indigenous but knows the community, knows how we act, knows what we look like, not fitting those stereotypes." He says we need more people in those casting directing chairs who are Native and don’t cast on stereotypes.
“She believed in me, believed in so many Native kids, she went above and beyond. A lot of times you hear the excuse ‘oh there’s not enough Native actors’ which is a terrible excuse, I hate hearing that. It’s just, you’re not looking hard enough at all. And Angelique, she’s looking everywhere: rural , urban, reservations, everywhere in between… She should be the standard, the pillar for casting directors when it comes to casting Native projects, for casting as a whole.” - D’Pharaoh
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Joel: Awesome. Okay. Wow. Uh, I'm so excited. It finally worked out. We finally,
D'Pharaoh: did.
Joel: got you here.
D'Pharaoh: Mm-Hmm. thank you so much for rescheduling. All the times we had to reschedule. I've been a little busy this past
Joel: I'm, I'm easy, man. If we're not running on Indian time, then we're running on the wrong time. I think.
D'Pharaoh: at least, you know, at least you know,
Joel: yeah, exactly. I'm, uh, excited to be in my guest chair chatting because we've had to reschedule this a bunch as is, uh, pretty standard in this business really.
Um, Yeah, my pal here, my little nephew, he's one of the guys that anyone in Indian country knows on TV now. He’s got started in TV shows like, Holly Hobby, Murdoch Mysteries, Tribal, uh, a little movie called Beans, where we met. Yeah, that was, that was pretty great times. Uh, you'll know him. as Bear on Reservation Dogs, I mean, one of the greatest shows of all time.
Uh, can I please ask you to introduce yourself? Tell us your name, your ancestry, where your people are from and your languages, please.
D'Pharaoh: Yeah, of course. Well, Anii Boozhoo. My name is D’Pharaoh Miskwaatez. I was born in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Treaty 13. My people are in northwestern Ontario at a reservation called Big Trout Lake. I am Oji-Cree-Anishinaabe. And, uh, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm currently learning.
My family, we speak, you know, Oji-Cree, a mixture of Anishinaabemowin and Swampy Cree. So, yeah.
Joel: That's awesome, man. Wow. Yeah. me too. Like, uh, it actually wasn't until recently that I learned that my family was Rocky Cree.
D'Pharaoh: Cool.
Joel: For some reason I always just kind of thought we were Woodland Cree because of the TH dialect, you know? What's the Swampy dialect? Which dialect is that?
D'Pharaoh: Well, well, where my Cree site comes from is in Manitoba. So, Manitoba, Swampy Cree area over there. Oji-Cree communities, they're pretty small communities. We're very small communities compared to other Anishinaabe communities. I don't want to guess it… we're maybe around like A handful of communities spread out throughout, uh, northern Ontario northwestern ontario and uh, Manitoba area I'm, i'm a McKay. McKay clan, you know, if anybody knows the McKay in thunder bay or manitoba or northwestern ontario That's my family, you know Yeah, yeah, swampy Cree area though. So like manitoba area
Joel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not that big either, the Rocky Cree, but I mean, you know, we'll get along. I remember when I took a trip out to Quebec. It wasn't during the time when we met, when we were filming Beans, I was a, I was a young man, I was about your age at the time, and I met this woman that spoke French and, uh, Cree from out there, and I was trying to have a conversation with her, because she didn't speak English, and it was like, it was pretty wild, it was pretty wild, but yeah, we're everywhere. Cree!
D'Pharaoh: Crees were everywhere exactly, you know, especially down in uh, Quebec over there, you know, especially in Alberta, man. You know, I didn't even know this but like, you know, paulina alexis shout out to Paulina Alexis who plays Willie Jack on the show You know, she she's uh, Nakota Sioux, but they she she knows and understands cree.They speak a lot of Cree out there. Do you even know that? You know, so
Joel: Yeah. Yeah.
D'Pharaoh: We're everywhere we're everywhere
JD: I remember. Yeah, man, that was, it was such a great time meeting. I'll get into how like we met and all that stuff later too. But, the reason why I'm doing the show I'm trying to, uh, it's my way of, of, uh, You know, giving back inspiring other Indigenous folks and just letting them get the chance to meet some of their idols like yourself, other up and comers, , you know, new in the business and just understand the journey that it is to be an artist, um, where we got started, how all that worked out. Where was it that really started for you, um, when you were young, young, young?
D'Pharaoh: Yeah, I started at 15 years old. Uh, prior to that, I never thought I would become an actor. I never thought it would be realistic, you know. It seemed like, like going to the moon. It seemed very unrealistic. It didn't even seem like I could comprehend it or, or, or it would actually be something, something that would, that can come towards me.
But, um, how it all started was I was, uh, 15 years old and I was attending, um, a Native American center in Toronto called Council Fire. Uh, it's located in downtown Toronto near Regent Park. I would go over there to like learn our, learn our singing, learn our songs, learn our drumming. That's what I was focused on when I was, when I was around 15.
And, um, one day I just, I just came in and, um, you know, I didn't even want to go to, I didn't even want to attend that time. I was really sick, but I was like, screw it. I'm just going to go anyways. And, and on the bulletin board, there was a, an open casting call sheet looking for indigenous youth to audition and that was for that was for some project It was for some like disney project.
I landed the role, but it fell through production-wise. That was kind of my first experience realizing, you know productions can fail even though it wasn't me, you know what I mean? So, uh, you know what I mean? So I always think I was always thinking like oh it was me I'm the one who I I did bad or whatever, but it was a production, you know, so where it all started was through that, uh a casting director.
She, uh, remembered me, kept me in mind. I had no agent at the time. My mom was like my manager, my “momager”. The casting director would send my mom, send my mom auditions thinking that, you know, I would fit for this and
Joel: Shout out to your mom, by the way.
D'Pharaoh: Shout out to my mom.
Yes, my mom has been with me through every aspect of my journey, every. So, you know, shout out to my mom for that. You already know she's she's with us on Beans, you know We had a nice time partying out there, you know, but
Joel: I hung out with her. I remember when I met her and she lost her phone twice in one night when I was with
D'Pharaoh: Yeah, yeah, we were partying I don't know she's clumsy I get it from her I lose everything and I swear I get it from her. Crazy, you know, but
Joel: Yeah.
D'Pharaoh: But yeah, exactly. I mean, that's where I started off. You know, I started off with Larissa Mayer of casting director. Shout out to Larissa.
She's the one who kind of kept me in mind, uh, seeing something in me when I first started that I didn't even see in myself. I didn't think I was even, I don't, I don't think I'm great now, and I do not think at all I was great back then. So, you know, the fact that she's seen, uh, a little bit, some little spark in me and this continued, it gave me the motivation to continue going. So thank you to Larissa for sure. Thank you, Miigwetch.
Joel: Oh, man, that, that is, that's awesome. And also, yeah, your mom. Um, I remember that night that we were all out. It was, it was, uh, a changing time, I guess, because that's where I met you. I met Paulina, uh, Rainbow, Kiawentiio.
D'Pharaoh: Mm
Joel: I mean, there's, it's, it's, uh, you know, quite, quite a cast, quite a lineup in that, that little movie. With a big heart. Beans made it far. It just kept on going and going, winning awards,
D'Pharaoh: Crazy. Yes. Yes.
Joel: Everyone just branched out from there. It's really beautiful to see. And of course, like watching you guys explode, you were the first ones that really just kind of shot off, you and Paulina. Um, but that, can you tell us a bit about your experience in that movie? Was that like your first movie role?
D'Pharaoh: Yes, it was. Yes, Beans was very early in my career. I was 17 when I landed the role. You know, still very young. Again, I started off at 15, so still really early in my career. Beans was just, it was, it was, it was a different experience, very surreal. It was one of the first times I got to leave, um, my province, um, not the first time, but one of the first times I got to leave my province for work.
Um, my first time, you know, one of my first times traveling, traveling with my mom for work. Uh, one of my first times in Montreal as a whole, honestly, I never, I never got a chance to go to Montreal prior. I never got a chance to explore Kanawake, Akwesasne, the beautiful Mohawk communities that, that, that opened up their arms to let us in.
And, um, and I grew up, it's crazy, because I grew up very familiar with the Oka Crisis. Very familiar, my family very much being like, this was, this is our Canadian resistance movement right here. You know, this is our AIM, our Alcatraz kind of thing, you know? That was kind of our thing, you know? So, you know, growing up, since I was a little kid, I would see these photos, I would see these, you know, these documentaries that, uh, what was it? 270 Years of Resistance. If i'm not mistaken, um growing up watching that, you know growing up watching. I have very big memories as a kid watching these and um, a sense of pride knowing that like, you know down down the street Down the street from me down the neighborhood, you know, like just just the city over just the the the territory over they they did such amazing amazing work and uh showed an example for other Indigenous communities around the world how to stand up. Um, so so just to get into it, you know when I landed the role I was very happy.
We did the casting call. Uh, we did the last edition in uh, Toronto It was actually my first time in my first and last time was that they did a uh workshop I don't know if you were a part of that I don't I don't remember But they did a workshop where they took all of the Aprils all of the Beans all of the Hanks… A bunch of us there was probably like 30 Indian kids 30 Indian actors right
Joel: I did. I actually didn't know that they had that big group there. So this is more, more of the production element of making a movie like that. A lot of people don’t see.
D'Pharaoh: For sure For sure. I mean that was something I never experienced before I mean and again never experienced after was that they gave us a workshop. They gave us acting lessons as we were doing in the audition, which is something very different. And even at the time I thought it was very different and still to this day I never experienced anything since Um, but that was the time I got to meet Paulina Alexis, uh, who plays April in the film. Um, we hit it off right away. A little story that I love telling people, talking about me and Paulina when we first met was that Tracy Deer and all the writers and directors, Meredith, they all said, okay, get up, all the Hanks, get up and meet with the Aprils and make some chemistry with each other.
And I remember all of the Hanks and Aprils meeting up with each other and I'm like, I'm like, “screw that, I'm too cool for that, I'm not gonna get up, you know what I mean? I'm not gonna do that, no” you know? And, um, well, I look over and everyone, everyone already has their little group and the only two people left who didn't get up was me and Paulina!
Joel: Get out. What!!
D’Pharoah: So I said, okay, so, so she's cool, so, so this, yes, exactly. So I'm like, she's cool then, you know? So I walk up to her and I'm like, Yo, you're april we're brothers and sisters, you know, and you can actually see the photo. Um, I gotta share it with you guys There's there's a photo that we have that was um, that shows me and Paulina.
We're both like 17 years old, you know standing right next to each other taking the photo because all the Aprils and Hanks had to stick together And right after that we clicked I mean like, you know Paulina has been my sister ever since you know, I we exchanged contacts We've been texting after that audition process when we landed the role we messaged each other, you know got to know each other You Uh, and then and then we then they shipped us right out to uh, uh, Kanawake.
It was my first time… Yeah, it was my first time. Um, you know They gave me the option to either stay in montreal or stay in Kanawake and I said screw that I want to stay In the rez like I want to see what this experience is like. Um, uh both growing up there because you know Our characters are from there and um, i'm just trying to get the whole uh, Kanawake rez life experience while i'm out there
Joel: And it's a beautiful, beautiful reservation too.
D'Pharaoh: Beautiful community
Joel: And they have the, they have the absolute best, uh, parody smoke store names. Cause I laughed every day I drove out there and we'd see the
D'Pharaoh: Yeah,
Joel: little shop signs for like…
D'Pharaoh: oh yeah all those little cigarette store best buds yeah all those little cigarette stores they got like… there was one that was like a mcdonald's sign, but it was definitely a smoke shop. It was not at all It was not at all mcdonald's But no the community shout out to everybody in Kanawake Everybody from Kanawake was such a beautiful souls and beautiful hearts and you can very much see that warrior resistance still in Still in them to this day, you know, you can tell they're ready to pick up those arms again and defend, you know, so
Joel: yeah that did not go anywhere absolutely and it was it was Incredible to be like I was playing the dad and I was on the barricades and I was with the actual men who were there, right?
D'Pharaoh: Crazy! Crazy!
Joel: the actual warriors who were there and they were like, yeah, buddy was like, that's me that's the photo of me and that soldier, you know The famous iconic photo and he's like somehow they got my picture all of that like, you know I was, I was just in awe of these guys, you know, I'm like, I'm just trying to trying to pretend the best I can at the moment.
D'Pharaoh: Right. I mean again again to get into it, you know, that was my first movie experience. I never shot in a movie before everything prior like you listed off Holly Hobby Murdoch Mysteries, uh Tribal they were all like little prior little mini one lines, you know, or at least one episode type of things so, um, so I never did movies prior to that and that was a completely different experience and working with Tracy Deer was amazing.
I love Tracey Deer. She's she's such a sweetheart. Amazing director knows her vision knows her purpose and uh doesn't change doesn't compromise for anything which I very much respect Mhm
Joel: a big shout out to her she gave so many of us a big break, big opportunities
D'Pharaoh: Opportunities. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Joel: And, and what's amazing about that, I find too, working in Indigenous films, um, what you were talking about, how they were giving you acting lessons on site because we're uplifting, each other. I don't find that in, um, much other film to be honest. Like where, where they're, they're pulling people out of obscurity and helping them while they're doing it. You know?
D'Pharaoh: Yes No, never never honestly and like, you know to touch to touch upon with uh on Tracey Deer even more is that you know, um, um It was my first time experiencing with the director that uh, this is not a bad thing at all This is just a note thing that I noticed was that um, you know– No improv. I don't know if she did that with you, but no improv.
Like it was very much like “stick to the script, stick to what's written”, you know, and that's perfect. I mean, she wrote the script. I respect it. You know what I mean? I respect a writer when they have, when they know their purpose, when they know, like, “no, this is how it's gonna be said”. And that was definitely, um, that was definitely, uh, uh, different for me.
Especially because I just came off of sets that were just one lines that were just a you know A few scenes like etc And I was still learning my craft and to and to get it down exactly how she wants was definitely a challenge For me because because my mind's all over the place. I want to improv I want to throw in a little bit of myself in there.
Joel: Yeah. I'm the same. I'm the same. Yeah.
D'Pharaoh: You know what? I mean? Exactly. So, um, so so, you know, it was very much It was definitely a challenge, definitely different definitely. Um, uh a different feeling for me as an actor to To do it right both for the Kanawake and Kaneasetake both for the Mohawk communities as a whole but also for Tracey Deer You know, this was her personal story.
This is she was 12 years old. She was beans, you know, so, you know so to tell her story right was uh, was was definitely a goal of mine and also And also my character my character, you know, I was very much struggling in the beginning. Uh, accepting the role when I first got it because of the You the stuff Hank has to do, you know, and I remember Tracey Deer and Meredith. They sat me down and they explained to me. They said, you know It sounds funny. I mean it they explained to me saying that you know, um, my character will help people in the audience realize that this is bad, you know the fact if anybody hasn't watched the project yet I don't want to spoil it too much. But if you have you know, um, you know My character is not a great character, you know, he pushes himself onto you know, uh, Beans, You know A shitty person, you know, and um, and i'm not I don't I like to think i'm not I like to think that was like The complete opposite from from me to D’Pharaoh Woon-A-Tai, D’Pharaoh McKay, to you know, Hank and
Joel: I'll attest to that. You're, you're, you're, you're, you're a real one,
D'Pharaoh: do you know and um, but but no, but hey What I do got to say about that scene that we shot that was very uncomfortable for me For for sure and definitely uncomfortable for Kiawentiio was um that hey The way they shot it was perfect.
We had my first time working with um an intimacy coordinator You know, uh, i'm pretty sure it was one of the first projects that really did that.
Joel: Especially when you're dealing with, with children in this scene
D'Pharaoh: Which, with underage children, exactly. You know, I was 17 at the time, Kiawentiio was what, 15, 14?
Joel: Yeah. Yeah.
D'Pharaoh: yeah, 14 years old? You know, she was a kid, she was a kid! You know, she was just a little kid, you know? So, so it's definitely gotta take that stuff really seriously and make sure that everybody on set is very comfortable. I mean, I mean, that was my goal. My goal completely was to make sure that, um, Kiawentiio, that, to make sure everybody on set, not just Kiawentiio, not just me, everybody on set was comfortable, because it was a very 12 years
Joel: 12 years old. There we go. Yeah, I just remembered.
D'Pharaoh: Whoa, you know, yeah, exactly
Joel: a young young and you again, like, both you, Paulina, very heavy subject matter.
D'Pharaoh: Yes
Joel: You know, I think that's why you just guys, you gravitated toward each other, which is incredible. I love that story of you guys finding each other. And then you grew together. You guys haven't left.
D'Pharaoh: No, we have not at all.
Joel: little siblings all the way.
D'Pharaoh: Very much. So I mean right after we uh while we were shooting Beans me, uh, Taio Uh, uh, Kiawentiio, uh, paulina. We all got our
Joel: Shout out to Taio.
D'Pharaoh: Shout out to Taio
Joel: good to see him down in LA when I saw you down there.
D'Pharaoh: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Exactly. We'll definitely get into that because I have questions for you too,
Joel: Oh,
D'Pharaoh: but just to discuss Beans, you know, I was very, I was very proud to work on that project. I thought it was really cool that you know, they were doing construction on the Mercier Bridge.
And so we get to use an excuse to block it again, you know. And, um, and also, you know, um, very much that racism is still very real,
Joel: Yes, I want to, I want to get… those days that we were there. Oh,
D'Pharaoh: Yes. 'cause because you were on the bridge
Joel: I was on the bridge. Yeah. And, uh, it was, it was just by providence pretty much. One of the producers of the film was also a parent company of the construction company hired to replace the light bulbs on the bridge. So we got to shut down, because they had to shut down the bridge to replace these bulbs, we got to use the two lanes on one side, and there was another two lanes for traffic on the other.
But people coming over, it was, it was, I mean, I'm used to racism. Canada likes to pretend that it's not a racist country, but absolutely there's a lot. Um, and There was something about those, uh, those Montrealers... they got that little bit of a zhuzh, I don't know. They really put that spice on it. Oh my god, yeah.
It was wild. They were like, I remember guys driving by yelling out like, “Fucking Mohawks, you should die!”
D'Pharaoh: right,
Joel: But we're using that energy. to actually create this story. It was, so it was coming from a really real place with these people that were screaming at us and like honking horns and trying to ruin takes, you know, and,
D'Pharaoh: yeah. Exactly. I mean, I mean, like, look at it. What? The Oka Crisis happened in 1990. That was not long at, at all. People like to make it seem like it was like 1800s. That was 1990. The warriors and the racist people who, who protested in Guinness, in, uh, uh, uh, in Châteauguay are still alive. You know, we already, we already see, uh, love the depiction.
We talk about it. Um, I love the depiction that Tracy Deer did with the burning of the native, you know, uh, the riots that, that was done. Um, Was very important because it very much shows that hey, like, you know, montreal I mean quebec as a whole has a lot of hatred towards native americans, especially towards the mohawk community You know and as and as somebody who who is native american not from uh, uh quebec and going to quebec I I've seen that myself, you know, especially me Oh, sorry, my thing's up My apologies, my apologies, but you know, but you know, but
Joel: No worries.
D'Pharaoh: um, Quebec going over there not being not speaking french, they will they will look at you weird if you do not speak French, you know, but um But no, I definitely experienced a little side eye a little like who are you what are you doing here type of vibe, you know, Sadly, you know and it's sad even to say that that was that's definitely a daily occurrence for the mohawk communities who live out there Again, Kanawake is like what 20 minutes 10 minutes from Montreal like it's so close.
You know what I mean? It's so close, you know, so so a lot of hatred definitely goes towards those communities, which I hate to see, you know very much Is
Joel: a beautiful group of people like they're the real fighting spirit that you know We're not a monolith. I've said often when it comes to indigenous communities, but we have adopted the Mohawk flag You know across Turtle Island everyone flies that flag because of their proud resistance those guys being the warriors that they are
D'Pharaoh: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Joel: Yeah, again the wonderful community. I look forward to the day that I’m able to visit again.
D'Pharaoh: I Got a chance to go not too long ago. I got a chance to go through. Yes, I did. Devery Jacobs invited me to a little community event that they have over there same with Teiio, who's, uh, plays Deer Lady on Reservation Dogs. Um, they brought us over there. They showed us a tour. They gave us like these really cool tours.
They showed us the history, the great, amazing history. If, if, if, if you're even, okay, non-indigenous people, I feel like you should go to their community centers and take their tours, their historical tours around the reservation. Everybody can go. It's not just native people who go to see that.
And the history out there is very beautiful. It's so important for every Quebecian, people who live in Quebec, because that's their history, native or not, you know? Go out there, experience the communities, go buy some fresh maple syrup, go do your stuff, you know what I mean? Support. Yeah.
Joel: And it's, it's always easy to hate from a distance. Once you actually know someone.. That hatred will disappear
D'Pharaoh: Well, very disappear because we're human. We're human. They're beautiful humans, you know, definitely go out there. Mm hmm
Joel: You know, I, I, and I respect that so much. What I, what I really admire is seeing your generation coming up, being so incredibly proud of who they are, uh, really pushing other people to see how proud we are of culture of language of land and where where we're from. Um, you know and yeah And and and that wasn't always the case and it's really nice to see this because artists are in a lot of ways changing that narrative, you know there's been a lot of work.
There's been a lot of work done. It just it i'm really proud just just to know you others like you
D'Pharaoh: same way, Uncle, same way!
D'Pharaoh: You know to wrap up beans, you know Long shoot nights. It was one of my first times experiencing overnight shoots, which was a lot the the scene the scene. Sorry the scene, um The scene where I got to throw molotovs at the police officers, uh, was so much fun.
I was messing up so often though, because they would give me like, they literally gave me like a, like a, like a bottle, you know? And they put a little cloth in it, set it on fire, it really was on fire. And they were like, alright, that flame is gonna spark the other flame to like set everything on fire so you can't miss.They're like, you can't miss, don't miss. I missed like three times and each time they gave me it back the bottle got more and more broken. So just think of like a regular sized bottle and after the third take it was like The bottle was like that. I was like my face was so close to the flame. I was like, “Please, this is the last chance…
Don't mess up. Don't mess up. Throw it on there You can see my general reaction of like fuck Yes”, you know, yeah You know exactly, you know and then working with uh, you know Working with Kiawentiio on those night scenes. I loved it because you knowKiawentiio, she worked man! She was obviously the main character.
She was she was the day and night, you know, and and it's funny I don't know if she still does this now, but she kind of gets it This type of, um, tired drunk, if you want to say it like that, you know, she starts like just giggling, laughing off or nothing. It's like four in the morning, you know, and she's just like, you can tell she looks drunk. She looks like, like, she's tired. She's like really tired. You know, she's like swaying back and forth, eyes closed, laughing at like stupid jokes. You know what I mean? Like, like it was very, that was very, my first time seeing, uh, the, uh, That was my first time seeing so much dedication from an actor like Kiawentiio and, and, and, and the passion that she did and the passion that she showed.
Um, it inspired me very much. Kiawentiio inspired the heck out of me, you know, from such a young age showing the dedication she did, you know. So yeah, I had a great time with Beans. Beans was definitely a heart moment experience. It built relationships for me that I still have to this day, like with you, like with, like with Paulina, like with Kiawentiio.
You know, and then definitely it definitely was a sparking for everything, you know, definitely the milestone.
Joel: And such an, again, important part of history. I mean, to date, it still is the film that I've been involved in, the most proud of, just because it really tells a story that not many people, again, didn't happen that long ago. So anyone out there listening, if you haven't seen it, this is your reminder. Go and check it out. It is a wonderful movie!
D'Pharaoh: the documentary too,
D'Pharaoh: yes check out the documentary Mm
Joel: Yeah, absolutely see everything's going on behind the scenes. Um, and just, uh, from that point too, um, things still weren't easy.
I mean, we were still in the same boat, uh, you know, acting life, artist life. It's still a struggle. Um, your breakout wasn't handed to you either.
Like no one came around. Sterling Harjo. He didn't come and just like, “here you go. It's yours.” Right. Like you you had to you had to fight for
D'Pharaoh: yes I did
Joel: for this role, right? Yeah, can you go into that process? Like a lot of people don't understand the
D'Pharaoh: I would love to. Well, this was right after reservation dogs. I was still in the group chat with everybody do a do Paulina everybody Kiawentiio and you know because the acting as you know that Beans yes
Joel: Beans, yeah, yeah
D'Pharaoh: The Indigenous acting pool, especially for youth, is very small.
You know, especially in those times. Today, today it's growing every single day. It fascinates me how many Native actors I meet and new native actors I meet. But back in those days, just a few years ago, there was not a lot of us, you know. We basically knew everybody, you know. And, uh, so we would message each other going, “Did you get this role? Did you get this role?” And then finally, um, Reservation Dogs came along and all of us got an audition for reservation dogs and one by one, you know We're still messaging each other, see who got the callbacks who got the callbacks and then um, Finally, it was just me and me and paulina, you know And um back in 2019 is when I is when I did my edition my final edition process for Reservation Dogs I got to fly out to um to LA for the first time in 2019 It's my first time ever going to going to california Uh first time ever going to la, you know for reservation dogs and was really cool Actually, not a lot of people know about is that um, my twin brother Mi’De I don't know if you got a chance to meet Mi’De.
Did you? You did cool.
Joel: Yeah, I did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I did meet him that one night your mom brought him over
D'Pharaoh: Yes. Yes.
Joel: Oh yeah, look at you
D'Pharaoh: you know, well Mi’De my twin brother He also got the final edition call for uh cheese You He would have been Cheese, you know, but Lane Factor and he agrees, Mi’De agrees, that Lane Factor is cheese There's nobody else who could be cheese lane factors embodies the the character but um But but I remember the first time I got the audition.
Two scenes I got two scenes four pages total two two pages each scene and I was reading those scenes like wow This is me like this is it was crazy because I very much really connected right right off of those two scenes So spread off those only four pages. I connected really well with with Bear, you know strangely, you know everything that bear was going through in that first episode it was I was experiencing, you know as as a young indigenous kid and So we go over to fly out to LA and they throw us in this room and what not a lot of people know is that the people who play the Indian Mafia, the bad guy gang, each one of those people, um, were auditioning for the main role.
You know, so the person who plays Jackie in the project, they were auditioning for Alora, uh, Bone Thug Dog, everybody, the whole cast, you see, they're all auditioning, you know? So they all threw us in the room together.
And, uh, and fun fact too as well, the character who plays Daniel, Sorry, the actor who plays Daniel, Dalton Kramer, me and him are the only two left for Bayer. So my competition was just, was just, was just Dalton. Was it very interesting? And let me tell you, it was my first time experiencing, um, That it didn't feel like competition.
You know, I get, I get thrown into the rooms prior. I got thrown into so many rooms with so many different actors. And, and as an actor, and, and honestly, as living in a Western society as we do, I'm like, “competition, like, I need to get this role. F this guy”, you know, like, that type of stuff. But it was not like that at all in that room.
It was never, we weren't like, “ooh, you're gonna get the role over me”. No, we were just generally happy that we were there, and generally happy that, you know, “Shit at least one of us Native kids will get it”. You know, we were just we were just excited to see someone native on the screen who regardless of who it was Um, but but they threw us in that room and we sat there and chatted for like two hours So they they they didn't come to get us for like around two hours They wanted us to get to know each other, you know And that's exactly what we did We built a community really fast just in that one day of the audition room and and honestly how that started was me and Paulina. Me and Paulina already knew each other from beans and we kind of set the standard of like “This is how it's going to be”
D'Pharaoh: So what ended up happening was, uh, you know, uh, Taika Waititi, Sterling Hardshow, Angelique, Mid, Thunder, uh, Garrett, they all came into the the room and they're like, all right, we're gonna start and that's and that turned into kind of like On mode everyone has one like okay, let's do it.
We gotta we gotta do this now, you know And one by one we all got called into the room and what's crazy is that some people would leave with laughter You hear in that room laughter create if you know Sterlin Harjo's laugh, you know what i'm talking about It's very much a hyena. I hyena type of laugh, you know Oh,
Joel: an example. Give us an example.
D'Pharaoh: like he's like he's like ha ha I can't even do it. I cannot even do it I cannot even do it I don't know if that's like muskogee creek thing in him or something but like man this guy got some like contagious laugh You know and I and…
Joel: Just you impressing it got me going
D'Pharaoh: Hopefully that's like what it is, you know, cause it was very similar, you know, but, um, but yeah, so, so what happened is one by one, everyone comes in the room and everyone's leaving laughing.
And I'm like, damn, you gotta be funny. I'm like, you gotta stand out and be funny, you know? So what happened is that right before I walked into that room, I took a deep breath and thought like, this is what I want to do. This is what I came to do. No fear, you know, stopped me prior. So I'm just not going to let me stop me now, you know, cause I was very nervous, you know
Very nervous man, like, you know, you're you're you're editioning in front of great people Sterlin Harjo is legendary even prior to Reservation Dogs in Indian Country, you know, and i've seen his projects, you know So I was very nervous and um So I walked in and my edition was the first episode and in reservation dogs where Bear is like “what's up guys? It's bear. This is this is our hideout. This is the gang” and everything like that, right? That was that was that was my edition and I remember walking in and seeing You Sterling plays guitar. He has a nice acoustic guitar up there. He's playing songs that get me comfortable. Whatever whatever, you know Taika was cracking jokes as he he noticed that was really uncomfortable really nervous, you know, um And uh, I remember seeing the camera it was on a tripod And I remember I looked at them like I could I could take that off the tripod.
So I looked at them and I said hey Do you mind if I play with the actual camera because you know what they're gonna have me do is like just like this They're gonna have me like talking to the camera like “oh, hi guys this and that” it didn't feel natural Didn't feel like you know, it didn't feel natural at all so what I did is I picked up the camera and I was like yo, what's up guys?
And I got them involved with it. I like turned the camera to them and I said “Yo, this is the Rez Dogs gang, and they all like, were like, yo, yo, what's up?” And they played along in the script, you know, they played along in the script, and that's something that I, I very much, um, preach to new actors, especially new indigenous actors is stand out, you know, and these audition rooms they see hundreds of auditions just in one day, you know?
Syou need you need to stand out and be different however that looks to you or however, that that may be, you know very much stand out. Standing out is so important I feel like you know to land that's what Sterlin Harjo said the reason why I got the role he says in the interview Is that like because I took the chance of trying something different, you know. Took the chance of trying something that you know was unorthodox, um in the industry, so, you know, that's kind of my story of how I landed the role, you know. And then by the end of it when they wrapped everything up, they said they told us they said, uh “Anybody who was not getting the role they wanted to they'll get another role” which you hear that a lot in the industry.
I don't know if you heard that but you hear that a lot in the industry where they're like, “oh, don't worry We'll give you another role, you know, if you do if you don't get this one”. A lot of times It's bullshit, you know, it's a lot of times nice talk But but you know sterlin harjo really Yes, exactly,
Joel: for coming
D'Pharaoh: you know, but Sterlin Hardjoe and Angelique Midthunder, all of them really like, stuck up to their word, you know, and really meant what they said, you know, and that's why you see this great cast you see in Reservation Dogs is that all of us auditioned that day.
You know, the only person who didn't get the role in that whole room was Mi’De, my twin brother, but it’s mostly cause we're twins, you know, at least that's what they told me, you know
Joel: Yeah. I mean that's a wild thing too. I mean, and also like, I imagine it's wild for your brother now because of your success and he's just bobbing through his life and having to, ou know, be like, “no, that's not me”. Um, and the people probably be like, “you're just shitting me, man. Come on.”
D'Pharaoh: my twin brother, he's, uh, he's living down in SoCal. He's living down in, like, around the Southern California area. Him and his wife, they're powwow dancers. She was a powwow princess, a jingle dress dancer. And, uh, he's a grass dancer. So, um, so very much, he's around in the Indian community all the time.
So he gets a lot of that all the time. I see people take photos and they'll tag me, and it's him. And it's him, you know? And he's sitting there like, he's like this, you know? He's playing the part, you know? No, exactly.
Joel: Still, he's still an actor
D'Pharaoh: still an actor, exactly. Exactly.
Joel:That's, that's amazing. Oh gosh. You're, you're, uh, you're everywhere. And, and like the, the fact like you for, uh, Lane, Devery, Paulina. The main four, um, out of the show. Uh, you guys are up and coming, right? You're, you're like, I mean. You guys have that thing in the show, the Young Elders. So, I mean, you're heading in that direction of being very influential people. How do you, because our teachings, at least in Cree and everything, We are not the same everywhere, obviously, but there's always that reminder to be humble, right? Be grateful and be careful what you're, you're going for. So what is it that you do to kind of keep yourself grounded? Without letting yourself shoot off into space?
D'Pharaoh: No, it's a great question and honestly, um, I find with my girlfriend Quannah Chasinghorse, we find we struggle with the same thing when it comes to that is that you know we're living in California right now. I've been living in California for two years, very new to me again. I'm just an Ontario Canadian boy a little Indian boy from Toronto, you know I never thought I would leave the country. So it's definitely very surreal and what definitely grounds me and definitely grounds her is um going back home. Going back home to you know, our communities to our families that honestly are very proud but don't take it out of hand.
They're not like showboating us. They definitely humble us when we go back home every day, you know, so You know, I mean as much as they care, they don't care. You know what I mean?
Exactly, you know and that's very humbling and especially, you know growing up growing up not being in the industry. So I have a lot of friends who are not in the industry, that's another very humbling thing too as well, is that you know having friends around you who are not in the industry who don't need to feed your ego just to be around you um, you know and and just want to be around you because they knew you prior and. Two of the best things two of the best things that help me is going back home, seeing family going back to the indigenous community I come from in Toronto, Um, uh, seeing my family out there who, who just humble me every day, my friends who humble me every day. Um, and going, honestly, I'm about to go right now. I'm about to go, I'm about to go out and we're about to go hiking. I mean, I think one of the best things to do as well as to humble yourself is to go back to nature.
Spend time in nature and spend time to see where we all come from. And to see that like, you know. It's not as important when you're out there. You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's, it's not, nothing's as important as just living life and, uh, and being with nature.
And just reminding myself that like, you know that this can end very quickly, you know, and also to be very grateful. One thing I just want to say is to be very grateful that I acknowledge the fact that at the young age I am and the success that I had at this at my age I'm very grateful that you know, everyone prior Indigenous actors prior had to deal with a lot of bullshit You know what I mean? So, so like Gary Farmer, like Wes Studi, like everyone else.
They have to deal with a lot of racism in the industry. They have to deal with a lot of, uh, tokenization in the industry. They didn't have this boom this Indigenous boom that you know people like to say is happening now.They had to deal with stereotypes both on in front of camera and behind camera just to put food on their plate. A that's a very big thing that I always keep in mind every single set i'm going on every single time I'm acting is to think that i'm very grateful because I know there's a lot of actors behind me who didn't who don't have the exact Who don't who don't get to scream? To be so proud to be like, oh, I was on Rez Dogs, you know what I mean? A lot of times we were on projects that we may not have been proud of, you know, or or we had to do just to make money or or whatever the case may be. And that's another thing that really much grounds me and keeps me humble is that you know I'm very lucky and I and I see that i'm very lucky.
Joel: This, this, um, those are much needed words. Uh, the fact that, uh, even, even at your level, Um, and I'm not just, you know, feeding your ego or anything like that, because I'd keep you humble. I'll eat bannock. I'll eat way more bannock than you any day of the week.
D'Pharaoh: I miss bannock, man. They don't, they don't got bannock over here
Joel: Yeah.
D'Pharaoh: Sorry for interrupting you. Go on, go on
Joel: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.Oh, you know, I wanted to say too. It's nice to see you haven't lost your “aboot”
D'Pharaoh: Oh, you could hear it? I'm trying to lose it. I'm trying to lose it, man. doing
Joel: I know– Doing that more generic thing. But yeah, i've i've hearing it creep out creep out even said you even you even said ToronTo.
D'Pharaoh: Did I say Toronto? Old
Joel: You said yeah, you've been saying “Trono” mostly but you said the first one ToronTo and I was like, oh he's working on that accent
D'Pharaoh: Ah ha ha! Exactly. I'm not from there, man. No, no. You know? No, no. Oh, that's bad. I didn't even say it. If real, real Toronto people would know what I'm talking about, know what you're talking about too. So I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get my ass whooped when I get back. When I get back over there. You know?
Joel: uh, You know all the great people you've worked with on on reservation dogs, um, you know, because there's I mean You had the who's who the murderers row of of indigenous actors were on that show Yeah, like you said Wes, Graham, all these guys.
Um, but out of the four of you paulina devry lane… Which one of them would you label as the young elder? Which one would you say, because you're a drummer, if I remember, right? Um, which one of them would you say would be the best member of a drum group with you? And, uh, which one of them, whose bannock would you steal.
D'Pharaoh: Whoa That's crazy. Well people you're talking about the cast of rez dogs. Yes.
Joel: Yes, yes, this
D'Pharaoh: Okay. Well, shoot
Joel: Young elder, drummer, bannock theft
D'Pharaoh: goes right to Devery Jacobs . Devery Jacobs is the definition to me of a young elder You know very much. So she's she's she's been in the industry a lot longer than us You know, a lot longer than the rest of the rez dogs, you know, and and um, her experience is definitely guided and uh, influenced the rest of us as a whole and and to speak on and to speak on behalf of everyone else that she very much did you know. I mean if we had questions and interviews if we didn't know what to say or what to do during an interview or what to say or what to do on set if we wanted to improv we would go to Devery Jacobs. You know and and same same thing and same same thing with uh, when it comes to you know You knowing people in the industry, learning about people in the industry, you know, Devery definitely, uh, protects us,who to stay away from, who to watch out for.
She very much, she, she, she knows and, um, uh, knows the best for us and how to protect us because, you know, herself, she, she's definitely, you know as an Indigenous woman herself, she's definitely, you know, experienced terrible stuff in the industry. And so to, um, to, to, so to protect us and to make sure that didn't happen to us is very grateful. And I'm not calling her on anything, you know, but very very grateful that she's definitely looked out for us Uh the way she has so young elder goes to Devery Jacobs for sure.
Who would be nice on my drum group would be paulina alexis Now, I don't know if you know this but the Alexis family they are famous! Like where she comes from like her people her family You great singers. Creator bless them each and every one of them with like just great Vocals Paulina can rip! Paulina could sing really fucking well.
Yes Yep, the alexis the alexis singers, uh logan alexis singers, um Definitely check them out If you guys don't know alexis the alexis her alexis family is very very talented drummers very talented traditional singers And they've been doing it since they were kids Grandfather, father, you know what I mean, uncles, you know, aunties, everybody's a singer in that family, you know, and not even just traditional singer as well.
Her family has a rock band, they rock out, yeah, I don't know if, I don't remember, don't mistake me, I don't know if it's like in their garage or something like that, but they rock out like every night, every day, you know, so. I forgot what their band name was. Um, which I'm pretty sure it's like a Cree word.
I'm pretty sure it's like a Cree word or something like that. Um, it's even funnier. You know, but I could be wrong. It could be like a Sioux word, a Nakota word, whatever. But no, like, they are very much Yeah, something like that, you know, you know, but um, but no no great singer So definitely paulina alexis and uh, and and and who's who's bannock?
Who's bannock? I'd love to eat Honestly, I mean down there in Oklahoma a lot of the cast members and crew were from Oklahoma. They don't got bannock down there. I don't know if you know this they don't got bannock down there, man I was very surprised talking about culture shock. That was like a culture shock right there for me, man I was like, where's your bannock at?
They're like what like they have no idea what i'm talking about, you know You It's all fry
Joel: all fry
D'Pharaoh: all fry bread, but like different styles. Like as the more of it ever experiencing and going around different, different communities around Indian country, I generally find the fry bread is different all around.
You know, when they say, when they say Indian taco or Navajo taco used to be like, Oh, what's the difference? But no, what going out over there? Yeah, there's a difference, man. Like they're like, they're so much more fluffier, longer, like, I don't know, just Indian, I mean Navajo fried bread, you know, dine fried bread, they're like fuckin humongous compared to regular fried bread.
I don't know. We're talking about fried, we're going on and on, but, but, but, but, but to an, but we could, you know what I mean? But, but to answer your question, you know, who's fabric I would love to eat, which any of my Canadian rez dogs, you know, Devery Jacobs, Paulina, Alexis, I know Paulina makes great. Paul's a great chef too.She's a, she's a woman of many talents. Horseback rider, singer, traditional singer, just a regular singer, you know, um, um, uh, actor, model, uh, uh, guitar player, uh, uh, you know what I mean, uh, food maker, she, she's a chef, she could, she could quit acting and go work in a restaurant, you know, start her own restaurant, cause she's that good, man, yes, yes, yes, yes, you know, so, so definitely any of my, any of my Canadian res dogs to answer.
Joel: Okay, but the only guy left was Lane, so uh, sorry Lane, you got your Bannock stolen. Sorry bro.
D'Pharaoh: He didn't even get to have bannock. . That's what happens. Mmm. Mmm hmm.
Joel: When I was coming up in this business, it was always in person and buddy, I was like working these strange jobs and struggling to make auditions and you know, jobs that I could, I would quit. I would quit if I had an audition that was, you know, so you know, and I'm an adult. I'm on my own. I'm trying to pay rent and eat and I had a delivery job. I’d take the truck. in between deliveries, drive out to the audition, change my clothes in the truck, do the audition, get back in the truck, and just have to floor it to make up time, right?
Um, but that was, that was what life was. But now, like most of this stuff, we're doing a lot online, which I find great. BUT someone coming into this, there's a lot of things you got to know. And it's kind of expensive, you know, if you're struggling, you know, Up and coming artist, you gotta get like a good setup, good lighting, good, all this stuff to, like you said, stand out, make yourself better. And you don't want to stand out for the wrong reasons.
D'Pharaoh: Yeah that’s a great point you don’t wanna stand out for the wrong reasons at all
Joel: Right. Yeah, you don't want to be remembered for having the, the shitty, like, is this guy in his garage with a, a 60 watt bulb swinging around on the ceiling? It's bad, like, you know, and you're gonna do the best that you can with what you can
D'Pharaoh: no, I get you. I mean, can I speak about that for a little bit? Um
Joel: Yeah, exactly, I wanted your thoughts on this
D'Pharaoh: As an actor who especially now As an actor in my early career and not having a lot of money I was working nine to fives myself, you know, I I worked at McDonald's for two years. I worked at a movie theater. I worked at a native restaurant in Toronto. Um a bunch of stuff, you know, and you know and actively as I was doing auditions while I was shooting Beans I was working at mcdonald's, you know what I mean?
I was very much. I was very much, you know working it like you say. And you know when it comes to that when it comes to New actors and the idea it does cost money. Let's clarify. It does cost money, but it depends how much you can finesse out of it, you know I've been lucky enough that I had an uncle Who had a camera, who was a photographer and gave me free headshots
This is, this is advice. I'm, I'm saying to people, if you know people, if you have a friend who's an art, who is artistic, you know, who has a camera, any camera, they, they shoot or not, just get some headshots off of them. You know what I mean? Any digital camera for free, if you can. That's how I did it. That's how my first headshots looked.
A Lot of my first head shots. Up until I was like 17-18 was all free. It was all my uncle doing my photos for me Um, man, let me tell you when you come when it comes to like, you know tripods and and doing self tapes by yourself at your home um… I would stack up like a table put another table on to each other onto the other one so it got my height level I would like take off all the light bulbs and like, you know how they have a little curtain around the around the little lamps? I would rip those off so you get like more light like I did it like everything I was not trying to spend money on like a whole hundred dollar sixty dollar tripod with lighting and this and that.
I have one right now because i'm i'm, you know lucky enough now but when I was younger, it was very much do it yourself and um, and you know. My advice for actors when it comes to that is that definitely you want to look professional, but in the end of the day, you got to do what you got to do. And they should, if they have heart, will realize that, you know, you are an upcoming actor who is not financially stable like everyone else. You know what I mean?
And we all got to start off somewhere, you know what I mean? Like, if you feel embarrassed, um, that, you know, your setup may not be too nice, just think of it as, think of it as like, It's not always going to be like this, you know, and if you're worried that the casting director may look at you weird for that… Just think like man then give me the role like you want me to you want me to have a better setup Give me the role so I can get some money to have a better setup You know what?
I mean? So never feel ashamed anybody shouldn't really feel ashamed at all for because I was there i've been there I've been there where you know, I have I had A whole family household of people and I have to tell each and one of them to be quiet I'm doing an audition for like 30 minutes, you know what I mean?
Like it's a lot, you know, I have three dogs. So very much like it's it's it's a struggle to get it right and to do it, right. But that's the part of it. That's the part of it I love so much is that hustle that that that that okay, I we need to do it We need to do it do you I do it ourselves type of way?
Um, that's the hustle and that's kind of the that that's what something you would definitely remember when you make it however, you want to make it, you know. You will remember back in those times being like yes I I took I stacked up a bunch of tables together and like use the lighting from whatever to whatever.
Like I still did that while we were shooting rez dogs Like, I have photos I need to send you of me stacking up chairs, stacking up lightbulbs all around me, having Paulina hold a lightbulb, like a lamp, you know what I mean, like, in the perfect direction, like, that type of stuff, man, it's community, you can get it done if you have a great community around you, and that's all that matters. Having friends who believe in your dedication, having family members who believe in your dedication, you will get it done.You can get this done for free, man, honestly, you know what I mean, yeah. Community brings it.
Joel: Community is where it's at. So a big lesson is: don't be an asshole. Don't be selfish because, you know, you gotta uplift others and they will uplift you. That’s what this is all about
D'Pharaoh: is what it's all about exactly, you know, and, um, and, um, uh, like you said, don't be an asshole. I mean, one of the greatest advice I always give to everybody is that this is an industry of making friends. This is not an industry of having enemies, you know what I mean? It's very much, I say this all the time, but it's so true. I don't know why people get so offended or look at me weird, but this is all built up of nepotism. Truthfully, truthfully. You know, and this is more about the crew than cast. I don't know if you recognize it too, but when you go onto a sets a lot of the times, you know to speak bluntly the sets are filled with, you know, white crew members like full white crew You know, it's because it's nepotism. They're helping each other out You know what? I mean?
And and when I what i'm proud to very much say on reservation dogs Is that half of the crew was indigenous and even to even stretch that even further is that half of the crew?
Uh, it was their first time, you know, it was yes,
Joel: course it was. Yeah. Of course it was. There’s not very many.
D'Pharaoh: There's not very many and we need to give each other chances, you know, so the idea, you know It's not as bad as it sounds is that we need to have our own form of nepotism truthfully You know what? I mean? Like if they do it, we need to do it too and not nepotism
Joel: Community helps out community.
D'Pharaoh: Exactly. Nepotism may be a weird sounding word but uplifting each other We need to uplift all each other every every aspect of the industry industry from every arts every arts industry We need to uplift each other whether that's acting, modeling, you know Uh, uh, uh, singing, anything.
Because if we're not gonna do it, no one's gonna do it for us. No one's gonna help us, help each other up, put each other on each other's shoulders than us. You know, and I, and I've
Joel: That was, that's incredibly accurate and talking about, um, Avatar, that was the case in Avatar.
D'Pharaoh: That was the case. Okay.
Joel: in Avatar, was that everybody in, in, well, the crew, the entire crew was very much wall to wall white, um, but the, uh, all the performers, there's no white people in the show. Because it's all Asian and all Indigenous, um, so I've never been on a show like that before.
But I'm really happy that, and I, I knew that about Reservation Dogs. I knew the crew, uh, from stories around. In fact, there's this, uh, segment in my show, which I will get to, uh, later on, uh, where we give a shout out to something that, uh, you know, inspires us. And I had to make a rule in this show. You can't shout out Reservation Dogs. Cause everybody loves shouting out.
D’Pharaoh: Really I love to hear that, I love to hear that
Yeah. Cause that's, that's, that's the one. That's the one that everyone is like, yes, this is moving me. This is. The work is being done, and you know what? I actually honestly really respect you guys and Sterling for finishing the show on your own terms like without it running out of legs like that thing could have gone on.
D'Pharaoh: We found out the show was wrapping in Season 3. So so so not like right at the end, you know, we Wasn't exactly it wasn't the last episode and we're like, oh we're rapping, you know, or it wasn't the beginning either We didn't start off this the fourth of the third season knowing that it was going to be over But around the seventh episode or sixth episode, uh, we definitely they brought the whole crew together I mean the whole cast together and Sterlingave us a very nice emotional fucking speech and um, um That bittersweet But I understood right from the right from the gecko when he brought that up why.
You know, I understood that, you know, with every story, there's a beginning, middle, and end, and that if we want to stretch that longer just because the audience likes it or just because it puts money in our pocket or whatever, that was the wrong thing to do. You know, and Sterlin, I don't know if you've seen it, at South by Southwest, he did an amazing interview where he discusses that.
Um, but, but yeah, I mean like, you know, ending on our own terms, not getting dropped from the production, not having the production drop us, But us be like, yes, this is how we're ending the story and the production they wanted us to go… I signed a deal Yeah, I signed a deal for like six seasons or something like that I signed a deal for a pretty pretty long deal with Disney for those for for longer than we expected.
And I could tell that the whole writer's room they knew they all knew that even even if I wasn't in the writer's room but me knowing all the writers you could tell that they all knew that you know So much so many stories can Go off from after season three, but but but we needed to end it the way we ended it.
So, you know, um, i'm very proud of what Sterlin what sterling created over there because that's his story that's his baby, you know, and as he says he says that it needs to be It needs to be seen as perfect or at least, you know as perfect as we we made it.
Like we we we we don't want to lose that momentum that and which honestly personally I don't think we did as an actor on the set I don't think that we were losing that momentum. I don't think we were losing that passion
Joel: No, no, you guys were just growing, growing, growing. You guys finished. And I, it feels like, uh, you know, you guys finished on, on a sprint, you know, you're in the middle of that hundred yards
D'Pharaoh: yeah, it's a great, great way to put it.
Joel: you know, set the record and let it go
D'Pharaoh: And let it go. But it opened up great sorry for interrupting you but it opened up great great great doors for other creators You know, um, everybody on the set of reservation dogs as you see I mean, I don't want to go into other people's roles of what they got casted in but let me tell you like In the in the coming year year and a half or in a few months you'll see a lot of the Reservation Dogs cast as a whole are off doing amazing stuff amazing stuff.
Joel: That's what it's about, man. Maybe one day we'll be able to, uh, get that, that, uh, colonial, uh, feeling of, “Oh, no, these guys are in the room gotta beat them now (laughs). There’s too many, too many Natives argh”
D'Pharaoh: ha h
Joel: Uh, you know, it's, and also, also in the, in the crew too, like, I'm, I'm really excited that there's going to be a lot of indigenous, um, Crew members out there.
They're growing too. They're exploding On that note because I got a like we're we're at our at our time my brother
D'Pharaoh: I'm so sorry. I had so much more stuff wanted to discuss man.
Joel: All right. So this is it for to wrap this all up right now. Um, I just wanted to give you a chance to roll out the red, red carpet as I call it and give a shout out to something out there that you're especially inspired by someone, something, some project that you've got your eye on that is really filling your soul right now.
D'Pharaoh: Oh wow. Well, I'd love to shout out, the first person that comes to mind, I'd love to shout out Angelique Midthunder, the woman who did the casting and directing for Reservation Dogs. Um, you know, she's a very important member of our community. She's a non-Indigenous woman, but, uh, you know, very much, um, uh, knows our community, knows how we act, um, knows what we look like, not fitting those stereotypes.
And we need more people, uh, in those casting directing chairs who are Indigenous and also if not Indigenous, like Angelique, Midthunder, who know, who know our community, not gonna cast off of stereotypes, not gonna cast look for like the, the closest looking John Wayne-looking Native American, you know?
Um, um, so, so very much the person, first person that come to my mind is, is Angelique Midthunder. She, she, she believed in me. She believed in so many native kids. She went. Above and beyond a lot of times you hear the excuse. Oh, there's not enough native actors, which is a terrible excuse. I hate hearing that it's just it's just they're not looking hard enough at all, you know, and Angelique She looks everywhere. She looks at rural rural communities, reservations, urban cities everywhere in between she's looking and for casting directors, she should be the standard. She should be the pillar for, uh, great casting directors when it comes to casting, uh, uh, Native projects. Or just casting as a whole.
Angelique Midthunder is an amazing woman. And look what she did. She casted all of Reservation Dogs. Uh, everyone down to the last line. You know, smallest line in the project. And every single person, uh, did their job properly. So, very much so, my love and heart goes to Angelique Midthunder.
Joel: Aww, I love that man. That is such a great shout out. Man, D’Pharaoh, it's been such a pleasure. I mean, I've seen you everywhere I’ve gone I've gone both times I've been to LA now, which is nuts
D'Pharaoh: You gotta come see me again
Joel: will I will I'm I'm really hoping that we get to hang out again
D'Pharaoh: Yes we will Miigwetch brother man.
Joel: Kisakihitin as we say in Cree. Right on. That's, that's, that's the other, the other dialect
D'Pharaoh: yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. We got a little bit of a dice. But yes, but Kisagian and you know, you know
Joel: right.
D'Pharaoh: see you guys later. You know, much love very much so.
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We would also like to thank the Indigenous Screen Ofice for their Podcasting grant.