Ditching Leathers and Feathers with Darrell Dennis
Darrell Dennis | Photo submitted by Darrell Dennis
Darrell Dennis is a trailblazing veteran Secwépemc actor, comedian, and now– writer and director. JD caught up with him on location in Cowichan Territory while they were filming Darrell’s new film, Sweet Summer Pow Wow.
You’ll hear about Darrell’s very first job as the lead on a CBC teen drama at 17, his narrow escape from a possible Starlight Tour in Winnipeg, and how the casting category of “ethnically ambiguous” opened up new kinds of roles for him. From the old stereotypical “leather and feather” roles, he is only now starting to see stories written, produced, acted, and directed by Indigenous people… after 33 years in the industry. Listen to Darrell’s plans for upcoming productions and be excited for the future of Indigenous film!
“I feel like things are starting to change. Finally, after 33 years, I can finally get the projects that I believe represent our people properly on the screen as opposed to... just being a cog in a non-Indigenous person’s wheel”
Transcript below or at external link
Here are a few gems from the episode:
Darrell says things are changing finally. From not even 5 years ago, the industry is ready to move away from the same tired stories and there are new opportunities for fresh perspectives and Indigenous-written and directed work.
Darrell also talks about the reality of growing up in Canada (“if you think Canadians are polite you haven’t grown up Indigenous in Canada”) and how his work on a CBC show at the time possibly saved him from a Starlight Tour in Winnipeg.
Starlight Tours were a police practice where they would pick up Indigenous people, often men, take their shoes and coats, drive out to city outskirts or fields in dangerously cold temperatures to leave them to find their own way back. Many people died or sustained severe injuries this way.
So much of Darrell’s work has been about debunking stereotypes with humour. He’s focusing on telling stories that move away from the trauma and darkness that’s often expected in Indigenous stories while still telling authentic stories that reach all audiences in a different way than people have seen before– like the romance story in Sweet Summer Pow Wow, where JD plays the uncle of the protagonist.
“Indigenous people are funny and they’re sexy and they’re beautiful and they got timing and... I mean we can make big, glossy, movies that sell! With Indigenous cast and the lead”
ACTORS AND ANCESTORS’ RED RED CARPET RECOMMENDATION FROM DARRELL:
Prey: “ I think that, I think more people gotta realize that… we can be the heroes, we can be the leads. We can kill the predator, you know?” - Darrell Dennis
Look out for Darrell next in The Great Salish Heist and his directorial work in Sweet Summer Pow Wow, slated for a Fall 2024 festival release.
Cowichan Bay, interview location and filming location of Sweet Summer Pow Wow
-
Joel: Hi, welcome to Actors and Ancestors, uh, an Indigenous film and TV podcast. I'm your host, Joel Montgrand. Today on the show we have our very first industry veteran guest still decades away from being an elder himself for a few years
Darrell: That’s very kind.
Joel: Yeah, but he has, he has worked with nearly every living screen elder you can think of. He has decades of experience in writing and acting and has now even moved behind the camera and is telling other actors like myself where to go, what to do, what to say. And you have seen him perform in series like Northwood, the Res, dozens of other shows, including Degrassi, AP Bio.
That was a personal favorite cameo of mine. I like that one. Uh, he's done video game work stage plays, many of which he's written. Uh, he's a comedian, so you can expect him to be really funny. He's won awards, he's been nominated for even more. He's been a First Nations man most of his life. He's, uh, a trailblazer for Indigenous actors since he started at the age of 17. Uh, please, can you share your name, your land, where you come from, who claims you?
Darrell: My name is Darrell Dennis. I am from the Adams Lake Reserve in the, uh, interior of British Columbia. I am of the Secwepemc people and uh, I'm very, very happy to be here.
Joel: Well, thank you. Uh, I gotta say this has been such a great experience getting to know you. You're remarkably approachable, fun. Um, but I want to come out with some hard questions Right out the gate. I've been dying to ask you how did you earn the nickname “Flat Dick” from Graham Green?
Darrell: Those are the hard hitting questions. Yes. Uh, so last year, um, I directed him in, in a movie. I'd worked with him before. But mostly just as co-actors. So we are already pretty comfortable with each other. So the very first day of, shooting, I as the director and an actor in the scene with Graham, uh, we, we sat down and he says, uh, you know, Darrell, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, uh, just throw a few of my own things in there, right? And I was like, Oh, great. Of course you are. Yeah. You know, just feel free to improvise, you know, and just thinking that, you know, you'd be throwing in a, a few lines here and there, or a few words and stuff. But, , basically I yelled action and, um, nothing that was scripted came out of his mouth. And the, uh, script supervisor just kind of closed their book and put their pencil down and just let him go.
But it was, uh, his whole entire shtick was just , these made up. Expletive insults towards my character. 'cause we were kind of, we were kind of combative characters. So yeah. So he went through the, uh, entire, um, library of expletives that he just made up there. And a lot of them didn't even make sense.
It was like flat dick and, you know, hard nose. So since then it kind of stuck. He's, um, yeah, every time he refers to me it's as flat dick and, um, yeah, I carry that name with pride.
Joel: As, as one should, I mean, we've all heard flat, flat ass, bannock bum. Um, so I
mean…
Darrell: He called me that as well too.
Joel: yeah.
Darrell: Yeah. (Mumbles)
Joel: Well, good on him, man. That guy's creative. He was, he's a lot of fun. He was always worried about us, uh, being in the sun while filming and telling us to stay hydrated.
Darrell: Mm-hmm.
Joel: Yeah. Big Dad energy. Big uncle energy.
Darrell: Yeah. for sure.
Joel: Yeah.Now, part of, uh, why I am, I'm doing this of course is I'm just trying to show everyone Different paths, there's no right way, wrong way in how to do this. And you've, uh, been a working actor for, you know, wow. 25, 30ish…
Darrell: little over 33 years. I got my start. Yeah. My first, my first job was in a teen soap opera.
I think you mentioned it, called Northwood. I was 17. I was fresh off the res, had just moved to Vancouver. Um, you know, from the interior bc from, from the Reserve. I. I'm from the Adams Lake Reserve, but I grew up on a, on a reserve, even further north, another Shushwap reserve called Alkali Lake. So it's not the reserve that I'm from, but it's where I grew up.
And you know, I still consider that place home. A lot of people, you know, still consider it my home. Um, but yeah, so it is pretty far north. And then I moved to Vancouver and , I was sitting at home, uh, cutting class. Never do that. Kids always stay in school. Drink your milk, eat your vegetables.
Um, I, uh, I was, I was at home. I should have been in class and I was listening to the radio. Uh, that's how old I am. People still listen to the radio. And, um, there was , an open call for this C B C teen drama, , called Northwood. I was like, well, okay. I was already kind of, uh, you know, I was doing drama classes in school and stuff, so I thought, no, what the heck?
I send myself in there. I did, and I got the part, so my very first, my very first job was a lead in a TV series on CBC, and I was incredibly, Ill equipped to, um, to handle it. Um, uh, when you're that age, you think, wow, I'm working on a TV show now. I'm always going to be working till the day I die, every single day in film and television and there will never be any hard knocks because. Next year I'll be winning an Oscar and I'll be a movie star living in a, in a mansion by the pool. So that didn't happen. Um, but um, yeah, so my very, that was my very first gig and um, yeah and it's been an incredible, uh, roller coaster. Ups and huge lows in long, long, long periods of not working where I believed that I would never, ever work again, but something always came along.
One of the people from Captain and Tennille, or something like that, once said; You, uh, everybody pays their dues eventually. So, I really took that to heart, I’ve seen that in this industry that you know, you either do it at the beginning or you do it later on, you know, but everybody does have to pay their dues. I, I always remember that and that’s a real truism.
Joel: Um, this set, um, because right now we're filming Sweet Summer Powwow, has been very welcoming. Uh, the energy between all the actors. it's wonderful in that, in that regard too, also, would you, would you value, uh, a stronger performance if some were to come in very method, but have a, a very toxic attitude on set?
That's not the case in this. Instance here, but I have been in other productions where someone is, you know, the focal point.
Darrell: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a tough question because, um, you know, what is it, what is it you're going for? Especially in a movie or a TV show, it's, it's what happens on the screen.
And I have been on those sets where the process to get to that point has just been infuriating. But when, when you see it on the screen, it's like, okay, well, you know, they got there and it's, it's, it's pretty incredible. It's, you know, for the person watching at home, they don't care how that, that amazing performance got there.
You know, I mean, I, I have no, I have no problem with people being in character. Um, I, I, you know, I love that that's the process. Great.
You know, as long as it's, not affecting the, uh, the work of other people. And by that I mean like, not, not just only the, uh, the other actors and their process, but the entire crew, you know, if somebody, has to walk away because they, need to, you know, touch the trees or whatever because they're, you know, I don't know what, you know, because that's part of their process, then, you know, we gotta wait, you know?
That costs a lot of money. People, people are trying to do their jobs. We're racing the clock. Every film, no matter what budget it has, is racing the clock. And every second that goes by is like a cash register. It's like those cartoon numbers that, you know, keep going up or those tote boards.
There's, there's many, many, many, many pieces that, that fit together to get this jigsaw puzzle .
Joel: Mm-hmm.
Darrell: Put in place, you know?
Joel: Yeah, absolutely. Well, now that you're a, a director as well, um, and if you were to come up in situations where actors are. Gumming up the works holding holding it hostage essentially because their character needs that or they need that to, to get to that place. but you are up against that clock and it is do or die. I mean, who, who is going to make the right call there? Like you as a director now
Darrell: Right.
Joel: You see the value of like, sorry, there Bill.
Darrell: Yeah.
Joel: Whoever it is.
Darrell: Yeah.
Joel: We gotta go on this.
Darrell: Yeah. And thank you for bringing up Bill's name, because he has been a problem on set. (Laughter) Yeah. Um, no, uh, no. That, that is the point where the director kind of just says, you know, look man, I understand you're in your process, but we're not getting this, and you know, it's not gonna be on the screen and stuff. So, you know, you gotta. You gotta come out of it a second. Give me the line. You gotta, you gotta, we gotta put something on film or else you're not in this movie, you know, it becomes a practical thing. After that, then you really gotta, as a director, this is where you have to be the sort of captain of the ship.
I've gotten to work with a lot of directors, um, processes and how they deal with actors and crews and that sort of thing. So I've been able over 33 years to go, man, if I was a director, I would do it like that. Or if I was a director, I would never do it like that. Right? So at some point you just gotta say, listen, you That's it.
And yeah, maybe they'll walk off, you know, set, you know, maybe they won't, maybe they'll go over budget, who knows? You know, but at some point you gotta sort of say, knock it off. Let's, let's be a pro. You know, let's, uh, just as Olivier once said, you know, why not try acting dear boy? You know,
Joel: I love that quote. I, I, I got to see, on a little tangent. I just got to see his grave when I was in the, the uk, which was lovely.
Darrell: Oh, wow.
Joel: one of the all time greats. Yeah.
Darrell: One of the all time great graves you've ever seen.
Joel: Yeah. (Laughter)
(Theme Music break)
Joel: And, and, and on good things that have come to an end. Uh, what was your experience with revision quest like? I mean, um, how did that come about and up to, up to the end really?
Darrell: You know, one thing always, that's the thing about this business, is you start doing something and then one thing leads to another, and then that person goes, Hey, Maybe you can do this, which sets you off on a whole different career trajectory. Like I started off as an actor and now I'm a, a writer and a director.
I never intended to be any of those things. Um, but because of one thing that led to this person and that person and this thing, I've gone off in a whole different direction. So, It was one of those things where I was just kind of, I was doing some, uh, little, you know, comedy things and then, um, some people at CBC I was asked to go to some of the festivals to, to do some stuff.
And then somebody, uh, you know, from CBC radio said, Hey, let's, I. Develop a, a, you know, an Indigenous show. So we were kind of throwing around some ideas and we kind of had to fit some formats. And I was watching, I was actually at home with my wife and we were watching MythBusters. I dunno if you remember that show, where they would take, you know,
Joel: Oh yeah!
Darrell: yeah yeah. That was a great show. And, um, One. One of the things that's always fascinated me in some of the work that I really like to do is sort of breaking down, stereotypes and misconceptions about Indigenous people. That's always been sort of what I wanna do. That's kind of always been from a early age, my sort of mission. And as we were going, I was thought, what about like a, a native MythBusters, you know? 'cause I knew growing up, you know, in, in that community, in a native reserve and going to town, I've heard. Every lie and misconception under the sun about our people.
Joel: Mhm hmm.
Darrell: So, and it's, it's really affected me growing up. It's been frustrating and it's, you know, hurtful. And so I thought, what if there was a show where we could take one topic each week, for example, natives don't pay taxes, and sort of, you know, go through, you know, the, the historical aspect , you know, bust that misconception but also do it with a lot of comedy and spoofs and make it really entertaining.
So it's not a dry show. 'cause a lot of the topics we could be talking about, like taxes and, you know, um, you know, alcoholism and, you know, that sort of thing could be really. Dark and depressing. So we did our best to like make a really, really fun show and make it entertaining for people to learn about it.
'cause I always believed that, uh, laughter is a universal language and if you're gonna teach people, you gotta, you know, make them receptive to it as opposed to yelling at them or giving them dry facts. So we did that and it was only supposed to be a summer replacement series, uh, for one year. And I thought, okay, great. Came in there and, uh, did my gig and I was like, oh, we did, we did some good work here. I'm, I'm, I'm, Pretty happy about that. Cool. What's my next thing? And then as the series went on, the show became such a hit and people loved it so much.
Joel: I remember it.
Darrell: Yeah.
Joel: Yeah, I watched that
Darrell: Oh, great. That's wonderful. Yeah, and people were like, yeah, it was on like a Saturdays and, and another time and people would actually like tune in and they loved the show and we were quite overtaken by the, the response to it. So we came back like four more years, or three more years, you know, for a total of four seasons. And so I came back every year to do it. And actually we were actually towards the end, Trying to figure out more misconceptions and stereotypes.
We were just finding, we, we kind of felt like we, after four years, we had kind of done what we set out to do and, you know, we all loved doing the show. The other thing too is for some reason They, they always brought me in, in the wintertime to Winnipeg in January and February to record the show. So, I don't know, I guess that was good for my creative juices because I was never going out anywhere.
I was just stuck in my hotel thinking about the show. So…
Joel: It was during that, that time with your, with the CBC, I think, uh, where you had a run in speaking of, you know, misconceptions of native people, but your celebrity status in a way potentially protected you from violence.
Darrell: Yeah. Yeah, we were, it was actually kind of, uh, ironic at the time one of the episodes we were doing was natives and the police, and we were, you know, compiling stuff. You know, what is the relationship like with that? It was, like I said, you know, I was always there and. In Winnipeg in January. So I ate a lot at my hotel, didn't really want to go outside a lot.
Um, but one night I decided I was gonna go to, I was, I was on Portage Avenue and decided I was gonna go to a restaurant, you know, a few blocks away. And as I was walking down the street, , the police were pulled over. They were, you know, dealing with some, uh, other Indigenous people. And, uh, a cop turned and looked at me walking and he pointed at me and said, you come here! Now I had grown up, in, you know, parts of BC where there was, harassment towards Indigenous people is pretty common. Uh, I grew up with a lot of, you know, I hate to say it, but I grew up, in, in a lot of racism. So I was pretty much used to this sort of thing. Uh, a lot of people think that in Canada that doesn't happen, but it, you know, uh, I always say that, you know, people who think that, you know, Canadians are really polite, has never grown up Indigenous in this country, I hate to say. Um, but yeah, so I, I'm used to this sort of thing. So he goes you come here. And I just walk right by him and I put my hands on top of the roof of the car and he's like, uh, yeah, right, exactly.
Yeah. So they start patting me down and I, and I say, okay, can you tell me what this is all about? And he says, yeah, you fit the description. Again, obviously you fit the description of a guy who just robbed a liquor store and, you know, so I turned around, I said, okay, can you tell me what he looked like? And he looked in very blatantly, just very blatantly, like in, in your face.
He just looked at my, everything I was wearing. He looked at my shoes and he named my, you know, he said, you know, he was wearing white shoes, black pants, you know, he just pointing out everything, red shirt, you know, and that sort of thing. So he was just, I was like, oh boy, okay. This is not a real. This is not a real traffic stop at all.
Right. And at the time when we were dealing with these issues, you know, these topics of natives and the police, we were talking a lot about the whole Starlight tours that was going on at the time, which is for those who don't know it, there was a, there's a period where, and probably still happening, where police would take, uh, Indigenous people, take away their shoes and their coats and drive them out to the, you know, edge of the city in the middle of winter and just.
Let them out and have them walk home and, you know, people died doing that. It, it was a pretty common thing, you know? Um, and that was starting to get, you know, that was starting to get some media attention at the time because people were starting to talk about, even though it's been going on for ages. Um, but I thought, I was like, in my mind I was like, okay, I.
This is, this feels like a Starlight tour happening to me. You know? So they threw me in the back of the cop car and they, uh, asked me for my id. So I gave them my id and I was living in Toronto at the time. They looked at it and they got really confused. They said, why are you, uh, it says Toronto.
What are you doing here? And, uh, all I could see was the silhouettes of their faces in the, in the front seat. You know, the sort of the black shadows and I said, well, I'm actually here in town working for CBC radio. We're doing a show about, uh, the misconceptions and stereotypes and racism towards Indigenous people.
And all I could see was the two, the two cop heads as they were looking down at my ID, they both looked up at the same time. It was timed perfect. They both looked at each other and turned to me and said, You can go,
Joel: (Laughter) Whoops.
Darrell: but I said, yeah. I mean, like, I've told that story a number of times and uh, I was one of the lucky ones.
If I didn't have that, you know, that thing in my back pocket, then who knows how that could have gone because I have come very close in my, in my life, you know, run-ins with the police, where, you know, if something did not happen, I. Maybe would not have been here today.
Joel: Yeah.
Darrell: I hate to say. Yeah. And I hate to say that because, you know, it's the police a lot of times that are supposed to be your protectors. You know, of course there's, there's bad apples. Yes. You know, and good police, you know, I'm not saying that, you know, every cop is crooked, but, you know, I've, I've had some, I've had some run-ins with some, with some pretty, pretty shady people.
Joel: Yeah.
Darrell: so I was very lucky about that. And just think of, it made me realize just if I didn't have that in my back pocket, you know how many other of my people go through that exact same thing and have a whole different story than I did.
Joel: I think, uh, that phrase too, it's uh, it's not just a few bad apples. It's a, a few bad apples. Spoil the bunch.
Darrell: Yeah.
Joel: So it is…
Darrell: exactly. I totally agree with that. I've met some very wonderful police officers in my, you know, Canadian police. I, I, I, I do wanna say that. Um, but yeah, I mean, there is that, you know, that thin blue line does exist, you know, and that, and, you know, so
Joel: Yeah. And even, even celebrity, it, it's no guarantee of protection. And, and especially back then, I mean, it, it seems things are really changing now in terms of Indigenous celebrity and, uh, you know, celebrity itself is viewed through a, a colonial lens as, as well. So, like back then though, um, Even famous First Nations people weren't really famous famous.
Darrell: No.
Joel: You know, so there was always, uh, that bit of danger, something that you , you mentioned before in a previous interview, uh, you said most Indigenous people are tired about reading themselves as historic figures or as museum pieces. So, with the acting world changing is it, is, how has that, uh, shown up for you currently?
Darrell: um, it's only been recently that I found a move towards seeing us as modern people, and it's been, yeah, I, I can say after 33 years in this business to say that it's only been in the last few years that we've sort of moved away from being what we call, there's a term in the native community in LA called the, the leather and feather roles. It's like how many more times do we have to, you know, see our people, you know, coming outta teepees, in service of a lead white character. I've read this script the same script for 33 years. It's always the, you know, “White man brought shame to our village. You know, we must crush white man.” And then by the end is like, “white man has taught us all how to be better natives”, you know? You know, it's the same script every single time. And I just got, early on, I kind of got really sick of it. And my agents at the time asked me– this was around Dances with Wolves– you know, that's how long I've been in this business. So it's funny to be able to work with Graham Green now and talk about that, you know, but where we really, the first time Native people became really trendy was during that, um, dances With Wolves Time.
Yeah. Um, But it was not a modern day version that they were in love with. They were in love with the Dances with Wolves version. And so every movie it seemed like I was auditioning for in Vancouver was just another version of, uh, another western where we were in service to a lead white character.
Darrell: And the native woman would. You know, throw her life on the line for this white man, you know, because she, it has no other value other than in service of this, you know, the whole Madam Butterfly thing, you know? But in the, the Indigenous version
and I really found that this same recycled story over and over again, And it's only been recently that I found that we are starting to look at native people as the leads and stuff. We know we got reservation dogs now, which was a huge thing for the United States.
Darrell: But you think about Canada, we have had like north of 60, we've had like the res that I was on, you know, dances me outside. We've had, we've had. Shows and TV shows where native people were the leads, a lot of times they were written by white people, you know? There wasn't a lot of humor I found in those things.
Darrell: So I only find it like it's been recently where we are now as Indigenous people being able to, um, write our own stories and write them in the own ways. And that the industry is starting to go, oh crap, we have to have native people in there. Probably not. Because they want us to be, you know, writing it, but because they're, because of the backlash.
Darrell: So if they are going to do an Indigenous story, then we have to be the ones that are writing them and that sort of thing. I mean, it's, they're still, you know, There's still work to be done, but I find it's, it's, it's changing since I first started and I've been very lucky in that, , I've had the opportunities I have now because I don't think even five years ago, no, I know even five years ago it was always, when I was trying to get my projects together, the, the attitude from I found, you know, and not so many words was, okay, but who are, who are the older white males that are going to be guiding you through this process? You know? And it's only been recently that they've been going, oh, Darrell, you know, Darrell can do it now.
Darrell: Now it's like, why isn't Darrell doing it? Why isn't Darrell on the production team? You know, why isn't Darrell directing and writing it? And so that, but that's really been quite recently. So I think we're going through, hopefully, if not a shift, then a, um, You know, uh, an exciting period right now where Indigenous creators are now the ones that the industry is, uh, All, all the older white guys who I used to have to, you know, uh, put on my application to Telefilm or whatever, are now coming to us trying to get us on board of the projects, you know, so, you know, that's exciting.
Darrell: We'll see how, you know, we'll see what happens with that. But I feel like things are starting to change. Finally, after 33 years, I can finally get the projects that I believe represent our people properly on the screen as opposed to, you know, You know, just being a cog in a non-Indigenous person's wheel, you know, to, to get these stories on the, on the screen.
Joel: Absolutely. It, it, it, it's such an exciting time now. I mean there's never been a better time in cinema history for us to actually tell our stories. People are actually interested in them. I remember growing up and, you know, we had a German exchange student in high school who's so disappointed that we didn't actually live in teepees.
And you know, there's, there's huge misconceptions that are still out there. What is something – this is a little segment I like to call the red red carpet – Uh, what is something out there currently that, is smashing down those, stereotypes at the moment that you want to give a little shout out to?
Darrell: Uh, Reservation Dogs, I believe is a really important show right now. And the fact that it is so critically acclaimed, because it is written, you know, produced, directed by Indigenous people, acted by that, I think that that's really cool. So anybody who's grown up on a res, you know, can recognize ourselves in that.
I think that that's a really important one. I, um, but one thing that I really loved seeing recently was the movie Prey, which was the predator sequel or I guess prequel, it was the very first thing, but it was all a bunch of badass, you know, really smart kickass, Indigenous people that are, you know, fighting the, they were the heroes of the story and it was like it, I thought it was really bold of them to do that, to do an all Indigenous cast. You know, not a lot of names, you know, Amber Midthunder's done some, some, some stuff, but they weren't big names. But it was like they had the ability to say, yeah, we can do a bunch of really cool, you know, young Indigenous people who are kicking ass and doing really cool action and stunts going up against the Predator and yeah. People loved it. You know, it was a really popular movie. And I think that, I think more people gotta realize that yeah, we can, we can be the heroes, we can be the, the leads. We can, you know, we can, we can kill the predator, you know?
Joel: That's the pinnacle.
Darrell: That's right. That's right.
Joel: Up there we're, we're Arnold Schwarzeneggers now.
Darrell: And that's kind of what my mission is for the projects I want to do right now. You know, last year the movie I did with some of the people on the cast that we're working with right now, um, was an Indigenous heist film where we were the ones, doing the heist. We were the ones coming up with the plan. We were the leads of it, you know. Taking back artifacts from the museum, right? And it was the Indigenous people that were the smart ones and the funny ones and the sexy ones. And it was the, uh, it was the white people that were the bumbling ones that we overcame. You know? So that's the, that's the sort of.. and in this one, this movie we're shooting right now, Sweet Summer Pow Wow. It is an entirely Indigenous cast, much like Prey. There was like one, uh, there's one character that is non-Indigenous and he comes in for a few lines, you know, um, not unlike you know, back like in the days he's the only there to give some information.
He does, but I'm like, you know, back in the days it was the native guy who came in to do some information, but
Joel: And it was the backdrop of him living in his very traditional cultural, you know, McMansion.
Darrell: Right. You know, as
They all live.
Darrell: Yeah, exactly. So this is great. And like, and it's just a, a mainstream, romantic comedy about two young kids finding love that doesn't have, you know, it, it takes place against a backdrop of a powwow and there's some Indigenous stuff, but at its heart, it's just a mainstream movie about, Two kids falling in love and the, you know, it's Romeo and Juliet.
It's about their, the parents and that sort of thing who don't want it to happen. It's the same mainstream story that's been told over and over again so why can't Indigenous people be in a mainstream movie like that that tells the same story and, you know, and fall in love without some sort of trauma or that sort of thing?
I think, you know, when I first started introducing this love story between two Native teens, it's like, okay, so. When does he beat her up? Or, you know, when does the trauma happen or you know, the, you know, when does, when does it all fall apart due to, uh, meth addiction, you know, it's like, it's like, you know, and, and this is because this is what, when we do have Indigenous people in a modern context, even today, it's usually some sort of, you know, poverty porn or, or trauma inducing thing that we got some dark, dimly lit movie that's, you know, shot about how horrible native people got it and what we're enduring.
And yes, those are real issues and yes, those are stories that need to be told. But I think what I'm hoping happens, and I hope with stuff like Prey and reservation dogs and, you know, even far back in, you know, shows like The Res where we were bringing, you know, some humor to these issues and to our community, uh uh, I'm hoping that people can go, oh wait.
Indigenous people are funny and they're sexy and they're, you know, beautiful and they're, you know, they got timing and they're, I mean, you know, we can make big, glossy, movies that sell with Indigenous cast and the lead like they did with prey, you know, and that sort of thing. I don't know when this is coming out, but hopefully the movie will be, you know, people will see it, and this is a gorgeous cast, yourself included, present company included
Joel: I've got, I've got a face for not podcasting (joking)
Darrell: (laughs) That's right. But they're funny and they're smart and, you know, um, and it just, it's, it's everything you know, that every Hollywood movie should be, and, and it's all Indigenous. So that's, I think that we're kind of, I feel like the industry is probably ready for us to move past the old “white man has dishonored our village”, you know, constant, just depiction of us.
And I'm, I'm very excited about it
Joel: I'm I'm honestly just thrilled when I see people that I know in, you know, contemporary things where it, it isn't the focal point of being Indigenous, um, as, as the part, I mean, It's one of my highlights is watching you in, uh, AP Bio. Just that quick little thing. You came in as a detective and you're pointing a gun and you know, it's, it's, it's fun. It's great. We're just, we're just people. We're just playing these, these interesting characters. Why why not let us ?
Darrell: Exactly. I think, and, and that's one of the things I've been very lucky about. You know, when I first had long hair, when my agent told me to grow it out, because of the dances with wolves saying, I'm gonna work a lot. And I did, you know, but the second I cut it off, I was sort of in a, in a no man's land there. Right. But then it became, when I moved to LA I became part of this category that I'd never heard before. “Ethnically ambiguous”, which I loved. But it's actually been fantastic for me because I've been playing, I've been playing a lot of detectives. I've been playing a lot of those fun roles, doctors and that sort of thing, which, uh, you know, I would never be seen for if I had the long hair. Just because I would fit into a box, you know, so I get to play a lot of detectives, lately and not Indigenous detectives, you know, just, I, I've been very lucky lately in that I've been playing just a guy, you know, in a lot of the stuff there.
And it's not native specific. I mean, in fact, the last three roles in Los Angeles have been just guys, you know? You know, so it's been, it's been fantastic. Lincoln lawyer, I was a. Detective and, you know, ethnically ambiguous detective. I just did that movie Fall, which was really, uh, big on Netflix. Um, and I was just a guy, you know?
Yeah. So it's like, it's, I love that. Why can't we, uh, why can't we just play guys or, or gals, you know? And, and I think, I think we're starting to see a lot more of that. I know when I was first starting, it was like, Oh, let's see, Daryl Dennis for that, he goes, but the character's not native. You know? You know, and it was, it was actually really like that.
We can't bring him in unless we specifically say that he's native, or for some reason explain why this native guy is living in, you know, in present day, , Canada or present day America. It just doesn't make any sense
Joel: It’s like that terrible old racist joke of, what do you call a native with a medical degree. Right. And it's, well, no, it's just a guy. He's just a guy
Darrell: Yeah. Like, yeah. We don't need to Justify that. Yeah. Yeah.
Joel: yeah. So, uh, as a writer too, I mean, it's great that you and others are, are, uh, Pushing that forward, those, those characters that are, that are coming out now of, of, uh, like your work on, uh, little Bird and, and, and others, you know, um, I'm really glad, I'm honored and I'm, I'm thrilled to be, uh, part of this, uh, production that we're, we're doing here. And, uh, holy, I think that's, uh, that's our time. Mr. Darrell. This has been great having you here. Uh, I appreciate your time. You wanna give a shout out to anybody else that's out there? Indigenous, maybe even not Indigenous, that's a, you know, a real ally.
Darrell: Well, one thing I think, my wife, Katya Gardiner, uh, who's been co-writing with me, for a while now, we've been developing projects you know, left, right and center and we've been kept getting really close.
And there's other projects. She co-wrote this movie as well too. She's a, she's an extreme ally because she knows she's not trying to be native. She, but she just, she's part of that, that mission of mind to have Indigenous people and, you know, strong women characters and stuff that are just. People as opposed to, you know, In-Indigenous. So she's been really great in, in writing with that.
And just, yeah, all the, uh, all the people who are actually hiring Indigenous people for non-Indigenous specific things is really bold, but those people who are starting to recognize that we can, you know, fill a writer's room or fill in a director's chair or, acting roles for stuff and it doesn't matter, um, you know, if the role is Indigenous or not, but that person is great for the role.
One person, you know, I, I love working with guys like, uh, Graham and like Wes Studi. I really like I've worked with him a few times and one thing I've really, um, I. Uh, I love talking with those guys about, is just how they started off playing those, Indigenous roles and, you know, they're both in dances with wolves but they've also just, they've just been good enough actors that, you know, Wes Studi was in heat with Michael Mann playing, playing a cop, you know, and he does, he was in, uh, Mystery Men, you know, and it wasn't, that role wasn't specifically native, it was just because he was really funny. Right, right. That, that he was recognized. He could stand with these other comedic, you know, uh, stars and be just as funny as
Joel: Yeah. I remember at that time being confused because I'm like, when are they gonna, when are they gonna shout out? I think it was Sphynx, was that his character or something? Or Pharaoh or something
Darrell: he was a riddle guy,
Joel: Yeah, yeah. and I, and I was like, when when's the Native angle coming in you know? 'cause it was still fresh at that time there. It was very rare.
Darrell: That's right. You'd see something like that. And that's stuff that's the stuff that really excited me growing up, you know, and that's the stuff that gave me the most hope and that sort of thing for my career was just seeing Graham Green, not so much in like Dances with Wolves was great. I loved seeing him in, but I was more excited when I saw Graham Green in Die Hard with a vengeance right. Yeah. Or, you know, in Wes Studi as, as an Indigenous person was great. But I got really excited again when I saw him in Heat , you know, one of, uh, Al Pacino's, you know, cop guys on his team.
And that was, that for me was like, yeah, Native people are, can play human beings too, you know, with the jobs and stuff. They don't always have to, every time you walk on camera, the, like, the drum doesn't have to beat and the, the screech of an hawk and stuff, you
Joel: That's right. We're breaking stereotypes. We're playing people with jobs.
Darrell: That's right (laughs)
Joel: Dammit. We have jobs. (laughs)
Uh, it's, it has been awesome having you here. Thank you for giving us your time. Um, and you know, maybe. As the old saying goes, we'll see you on the next one. Ah,
Darrell: you betcha. Thank you so much.
Joel: Ekosi